Aside: The New Yorker

16 07 2008

I suppose it goes without saying that everyone is, by now, familiar with the following image:

Figure 1: Get over it

It appears that damn near everyone in the country is upset about this cover except me and the The New Yorker’s Editor (and, of course, whoever drew the damn thing). In fact, when I first saw the cover, I laughed so hard I damn near crapped my pants.

First of all, the fucking thing is clearly over-the-top political satire. Anyone that’s ever read The New Yorker, or even heard of it for that matter, is familiar with the fact that the magazine is CONSTANTLY printing controversial political cartoons designed to make people challenge their own perceptions. This naturally leads self-important reactionary left-wing douchebags (and so-called Educated Black People) to make pompous statements like the following:

“Yea it’s satire, and I know WE [pompous liberal yuppie douches] get it, but I don’t think the ‘others’ in America will.”

This shit enrages me for two sets of reasons:

First,

  1. Generally speaking, pompous liberal yuppie douches are NOT that intelligent – and yes, I draw SHARP distinctions between intelligence and education
  2. The vast majority of Americans DO NOT read The New Yorker
  3. Liberal douches are aware that most Americans DO NOT read The New Yorker
  4. If liberal douches think the cartoon would damage Obama’s image if it were exposed to the masses…why are they making such a fuss about it and shoving it into the national spotlight? SHUT THE FUCK UP THEN, YOU FUCKING ASSHOLE!
  5. The outrage displayed is, therefore, a disingenuous mechanism for gathering props from/getting laid by other liberal yuppie douches who find logically vacuous righteous indignation super fucking sexy

Secondly,

  1. The vast majority of Americans fall into one of two camps: those who like Obama, and those who do not
  2. The Americans that like Obama see the cartoon for what it is – a round lampooning of the ridiculous statements concerning Obama’s patriotism, heritage, religion, and ambitions made by…
  3. The Americans that do not like Obama. The effects of this cartoon on them will at worst reinforce internalized notions about Obama that nobody was about to change anyway, and at best (and far more likely) force them to realize just how RIDICULOUS their opinions are

People need to pipe the fuck down with the kneejerk self-righteous self-aggrandizing false outrage already. Obama has way bigger problems that a magazine whose cartoon, while controversial, will do nothing but help his chances.

Jesus fucking Christ.

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559 responses

16 07 2008
Jo

I understand that it’s satire, and I’ve read a few past issues of The New Yorker (I worked in a library during college–those things were EVERYWHERE) and have enjoyed some of the political cartoons.

What interests me most about the cover is not how it has been/will be received, but what it says about the national consciousness. It’s interesting to me how the face of terrorism has changed (or in some cases, remained the same).

What does it say that a cartoonist, endeavoring to depict a hyperbolic “Boogey-man”, drew a picture of a black woman with an afro? That he or she drew two black people in mid-pound?

Are we still so frightening to the Great White Majority? Are people of the same mind as Anna (see yesterday’s post) so prevalent?

16 07 2008
Bailey Blues

I hear you Chris, but I think this brought in additional stereotypes not specifically pertaining to Obama. I think I have a problem with the all Muslims are terrorists concept that is being feed through every channel possible. People who don’t like Obama aren’t going to like him and this just confirmed that. People who do like Obama are going to make the point further that this isn’t true and it’s just political satire, but I think people neglect the other implications that this cover implies. And truthfully as a Muhammad I’m tired of it.

16 07 2008
Bassey

Chris,
I respectfully disagree on a few points. I agree with the points that you raised but where I disagree is in the issue of discernment. I’m sure rational people when faced with satire are able to think and laugh and keep it moving. This election is different than others we have seen precisely because a lot of base emotions are being dislodged. People who believed themselves liberal and free thinking, Civil Rights types (i.e. The Clintons) are being faced with their own internalized racism. There have been rumblings that *when* Obama is elected, people will begin to feel as though racism no longer exists. No other candidate in the history of US politics has ever had to endure the covert and overt attacks on character, history, gender, religion, race etc. etc. than this man has. His wife has become fair game in a way that no other candidate, save ironically, Hillary Clinton when her husband was running and even that wasn’t as forceful and persistent or pointed or dangerously ignorant. Yet it persists.

Satire or not, it is unconscionable and way too “hot” of a topic to withstand satire or irony. People will see it as confirmation because it will seep into the subconscious and when they are in the booth in November, ready to cast their votes, all these “Satirical” images will flash in high speed in their mind and they wont’ have time to assess or balance the ‘satire’… Their base fears will take over and they will realize, “OH SHIT! We’re about to elect a black man into office. What if that means reverse slavery for white people???” My friend, Jay Smooth of http://www.illdoctrine.com calls it, “Tolerance fatigue”.
I agree that the cover itself is not ‘bad’ in the grand rules of irony and satire but this particular election and the bullshit surrounding it makes it difficult for me to laugh it off.

16 07 2008
DSD

This is my first post on here and though it feels like shameless advertising, I really don’t think it is. I basically wrote the same article and agree with you totally on everything you said. I was beginning to think I was alone and crazy, but yeah. I disagree with you on a lot of things, but you put them in an entertaining way, so I read the blog, but this one was right on the money. http://dsdglobal.blogspot.com/2008/07/dsdeviance-barack-obama-scandal.html

16 07 2008
Bassey

There are so many typos and grammatical errors in my post but the only thing I feel compelled to correct is “Grand rules of irony and satire” should read “grand tradition of…”

Grammar is just the white man’s way of controlling how you punctuate.

16 07 2008
Ms. Bisonette

I agree with this 110%. Im kinda disappointed with the Obama campaign too because they jumped on the bandwagon so quickly with the rest of the media denouncing the photo. Its making Obama’s camp look like they can’t take ANY kind of negative political pressure. And its reinforcing the fact that you can’t make any kind of negative statement against black people without backlash

16 07 2008
Knatural

Admittedly, at first I was pissed, then I understood it. I’m a little slow sometimes 😀

16 07 2008
youngwonder

Your absolutely right Chris, the majority of Americans dont read the New Yorker and therin lies the problem. The majority wont get the satire involved and more importantly wont read the article about Obama in the magazine. They will only see the image and remember the image. It is definately not racist or anything like that, to me its just unintentionally damaging to the Obama campaign.

Lifeisntshortenough.blogspot.com

16 07 2008
Bassey

Ms. Bisonette (HU?),
I can’t say that I’m disappointed. I think they are understandably gun shy. If Obama were to say, “I have family that practices Islam. Islam is a religion of peace. Like all religions there are fanatics that don’t speak for the whole group. Terrorists aren’t terrorists because of islam. etc. etc.” Folks would only hear, “OBAMA LOVES TERRORISTS! OMG! He hates everyone that was killed on 9/11!!!”
It’s sad but it’s true. He had to say something. Not because he doesnt’ get satire but because he understands that satire or not people are searching for ANY confirmation that what they believe is supported.

16 07 2008
Bassey

um… also what youngwonder said.

16 07 2008
Ms. Bisonette

Gotcha Bassey. I was actually waiting on somebody to clear things up for me. Not really into the whole political thing
And yep, HU

16 07 2008
youngwonder

Woops wrong tag, that would be

lifeisntshortenough.wordpress.com

16 07 2008
Bailey Blues

AWWW HU!

16 07 2008
klysha

I love you Chris! Okay now that that’s off my chest…I agree with you totally. This is even slightly related to something I wrote in a blog post a while back about Black America’s ability to take a satirical comic. (BTW I haven’t watched the news in a while so I have no idea how big of a story this is. This is the first mention of it I have seen…thanks for keeping me informed.) But anyway…every president ever has been targeted by satirists so why would Obama be any different. The fact that he’s black will make the kind of angles taken by the satirist’s hit home a little closer for black people (and in this case possibly Muslims) so black people will just have to collectively learn to take it and actually see the meaning behind things before we get all blindly enraged about stuff. That’s something that get’s on my nerves about us black folk. However it is sad but true that a lot of people just won’t get that it’s satire. You’d be amazed at what a large portion of the general population is is dumb as pencil shavings when it comes to things like this. I’d be interested in reading the article to see what was actually said now that I know it was written.

http://www.mysixcents.wordpress.com

16 07 2008
Cheekie

Sadly, the cover did result in some unnecessary damage. I think the entire point, though, that this satire cover is only echoing the thoughts of many that probably won’t change anytime soon, if ever. These feelings were already there, and this cover was just bringing them all to the table, albeit exaggerated (though unfortunately, for some ignorant folks, the image may be 100% accurate in relation to their feelings toward Barack/Michelle).

I think the cover itself isn’t the problem, it’s the misguided (probably intentional, because as Chris said above, it’s pretty well known how The New Yorker rolls) ass-backwards portrayal of the cover in the media and the irritating hoopla surrounding it.

16 07 2008
Jen

“What does it say that a cartoonist, endeavoring to depict a hyperbolic “Boogey-man”, drew a picture of a black woman with an afro?”

THIS is the only thing that bothered me about the cartoon. I think the artist himself views natural hair as as much of a political/social statement as the other elements of the cartoon, such as flag-burning. I think this because the afro is not central to the statement being made. It is an accessory to a certain idea–socialist revolution.

Everything in that photo can be reasonably argued to be a genuine affront to Americana. For example, Obama is supposed to be pictured in traditional Muslim garb (not Somali dress, as some have interpreted it). There is nothing wrong with being Muslim, but there WOULD be something wrong with having a sleeper cell president who secretly supports Osama bin Laden, which is what the artist is trying to portray. Similarly, government-endorsed socialist revolution cannot exist in an American-style democracy.

In my opinion, the fact that the fist bump is the focal point of the picture is intentional. The artist is satirically framing the gesture as the proof-wielding representation of all of the above.

Back to my point, though. What bothers me is that the artist views the afro as a fucking political statement. It would have taken nothing away from the cartoon to portray Michelle with her regular hair. An afro has nothing to do with socialism or revolution. It has to do with wearing one’s hair in a texture like that she was born with.

I am sensitive about this issue, because it bothers me that so many people still view Black women with natural styles as scary.

I hope I am not all over the place, here.

16 07 2008
Alph Dapalf

First I was mad. Then I was like…”eh”. Now I kinda laugh at it.

and her bush is ill.

P.S. fist bump action is definitely going to be a feature of the Obama action figure coming to toy stores in 2010.

Michelle sold separately.

16 07 2008
Knatural

I wonder if Obama actually thinks the cover is funny but has to say it’s offensive. He’s a latte-drinking elitist. He probably thinks it’s funny.

16 07 2008
ayo

I dont agree Chris, b.c. while the New Yorker does frequently publish political cartoons, they generally DO NOT put them on the cover of the magazine.
This cover is EVERYWHERE. People who do not read the magazine are exposed to it because it is just that racist and media has gobbled it up in a hysteric frenzy. And for that reason it will not bode well for the Obama campain as a result. Therefore the New Yorker needs to be and is being checked.
Lets not forget that PC’s in America have spawned FLAG burning in other countires. If they can get pissed and say shit went too far, so the fuck can we.
That being said, yeah… we DO need to get over the drama of it, because I know worse ‘satire’ is on the way. Speak, be heard and move on.

16 07 2008
Ethel

Chris! GAWD how I love you.

“The outrage displayed is, therefore, a disingenuous mechanism for gathering props from/getting laid by other liberal yuppie douches who find logically vacuous righteous indignation super fucking sexy.”

Falling off my chair laughing [and having cube neighbors looking at me askance].

I’ve heard more than once that this generation a) doesn’t have a sense of humor and b) enjoys getting righteously angry at any opportunity. Would be interested in your thoughts regarding this.

16 07 2008
Jen

Obama had to have at least pursed his lips to suppress a grin when he saw that cartoon. It honestly is funny. Blitt got their facial expressions down to a fucking T.

16 07 2008
Knatural

About the so-called, by some news agencies, “Angela Davis” ‘fro: natural Black hair is still seen as anti-establishment and a political statement, not a style/health choice. Who cares. The cartoon is funny because it’s so ridiculous!

16 07 2008
Joel Then

I know I’ll probably never hear the end of this, but I really feel like black people always make too much out of nothing. I work in an office where I am the only non-black person (I’m latin btw..), and they just won’t shut-up about this.. I had one colleague who came up to me and explained why I shouldn’t see the movie “Hancock”. He said that it was terrible how they were portraying a black superhero as a drunk, and he had to go to a white man to reform himself… Comments like that drive me insane, because it makes these otherwise intelligent black people seem overly sensitive… They get so ass-hurt over everything, it’s ridiculous. Somebody asked me if I was voting for Kevin Powell, and I said “no” (personally, I think he is one bitch-ass dude, a herb really..), and his reaction was as if I had lynched somebody…. Point is that the more educated a black person seems to be, the less of a sense of humor/reality/satire they seem to have… Everybody is on their Chuck D. nowadays…..

16 07 2008
Jay

Right on the money with the comment…

I don’t think the New Yorker was wrong (its what they do). I wouldn’t expect Howard Stern one day to start being socially responsible because he cared about politics.

Not wrong, but stupid in a sense. They should have known that it would be a hot button for a lot of people and stayed away from it UNLESS they knew it was going to be hot button and that is why they did to get the attention and stir up controversy. If the latter is the case then good thinking on their part.

I support Obama but that doesn’t mean that I will take away anyone’s right of free speech (whether sensitive or not).

I don’t blame Obama’s camp for putting out one response and leaving it at that. Can’t ignore the media’s request for a comment because that will only fuel them more (idiots) and I liked that he personally did not address it (at the NAACP convention) and shrugged it off as another senseless topic.

The only people that I would be mad at is the media for calling on their political pundits who have nothing else to do at 8pm (like have sex with their wives/husbands) than to come on air and discuss such stupid ass topics when the country is headed in a downward spiral.

I love it when the media claims that it is what WE (as if we don’t have a voice for ourselves) want to hear when they are forcing it down our throats given us no other options.

What about the pundits who come on TV and say….this is such a minor issue that we shouldn’t be talking about it….THEN WTF IS YOUR ASS DOING ON TV TALKING ABOUT IT! DoucheBags!

16 07 2008
Jen

I think he is pretending to be offended to peddle to middle America; the same way he has to pretend to be offended by Rev. Wright saying shit one can hear in almost any Black church in America.

16 07 2008
Jen

Also…Knatural–I CARE! I am sick of straightening my hair for job interviews for fear that naps scare off white people.

16 07 2008
Ariel

Glad I’m not the only one who wasn’t pissed off, but I can see why it would upset some people…not a lot of people are down with the satire thing.

OooOoOoo fist bumping action figures, I want one.

16 07 2008
Bassey

Sorry but Hancock was racist.

16 07 2008
Ariel

p.s. I wish the media would just call it what it is…”pound,” “dap,” “hit the rock.” Fist bump…

16 07 2008
Cheekie

@ Jen
“Obama had to have at least pursed his lips to suppress a grin when he saw that cartoon. It honestly is funny. Blitt got their facial expressions down to a fucking T.”

YES! That was probably one of the funniest things about the cartoon to me. Especially Michelle’s expression. It is waaaay too spot on to not be funny. But yeah, I agree Obama is just playing the President of Mainstream America game. Which, hell, they ALL have to do to get elected. Obama, even more so. He has to play this dirty game to get his ass in the Commander in Chief chair.

He can’t just cater to us, we don’t carry the election. He’s just trying to stay universal, but please believe this man will (and should) have us as a priority because it will be about damn time SOMEone made us a priority. It’s our time. It’s BEEN our time.

16 07 2008
Rev Leon Lonnie Luv

Just playing devil’s advocate here:

If “Hancock” would’ve starred say, [Random white actor here], would it have been seen as racist?

Or what if Morgan Freeman played the PR guy to rehabilitate [random white actor]’s image? Would there be a problem with that?

16 07 2008
Joel Then

The moral of the story is: people need to stop being so sensitive about everything…

16 07 2008
Cheekie

Wait, was Hancock SUPPOSED to be black? I was sitting here thinking that Will Smith was becoming one of those “universal” actors that protray those type of protags whose race is ambiguous…not mentioned.

16 07 2008
Knatural

Jen – Stop caring. How can one expect to move forward – professionally, spiritually, in life in general – if I make moves based on fear, especially regarding White folks. Though I’m still learning this lesson and I haven’t quite arrived, but certain things I refuse to give power.

16 07 2008
Ms. Bisonette

Halfway through the movie the question ‘why does the drunk superhero have to be black’ crossed my mind, but I tried to chalk it up as a part intended for any actor, but Will Smith was chosen because of his bankability in the box office OR it could have been written for a black actor in the first place then……

16 07 2008
Knatural

And how is Hancock racist?

Reaching.

16 07 2008
Jay

I am sure that either Obama drinks a beer maybe 2 or have ‘relations’ with his wife before every conference which is why he remains so calm and doesn’t let little things bother him.

We have seen what happens when those things don’t happen….hmm hmm hmm Hillary/Bill

16 07 2008
Bassey

I’ll stop being “sensitive” when there is more balance in the mainstream media. I used to sort of gloss over things and just say, “no big deal” until I had a son, who is going to grow up to be a black man in a society that still undervalues him.
I’ll stop being sensitive then.

16 07 2008
KadiBaby

I agree on some points but I do think that the New Yorker missed the bulls eye. I still don’t understand why a flag is burning in the fireplace. I don’t think it’s just “Over-the top” satire. When I look at it I see very little, beyond the fist bump, to denote the sense of ‘ridiculousness’. Yes, people ‘should know’ that these images are a false representation of the Obamas, but the picture doesn’t make that clear and it should be made clear. Mad Magazine does better. The New Yorker fell on it’s face. You want to know what would have made it REAL satire, Obama’s pastor sitting in the background in his religious vestments with crosses and a big flag from the state of Hawaii.

Cosign Jen on the ‘fro business

16 07 2008
Knatural

The flag is burning to show how un-patriotic the Obama’s are perceived.

16 07 2008
Joel Then

@ Knatural: This is probably the most racist thing I’m going to say today (but I hate everyone equally, so don’t fret): BLACK PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS REACHING…….

It’s like you can’t go anywhere, do anything, see anything, comment, etc. without a black person’s Racism Radar being on all the time. I wish people would just accept things for what they are and stop trying to make something out of nothing all the time…

If a movie has a Black superhero, and it’s a white guy who cleans up his image, so what?
If Barack Obama is on the cover of the New Yorker fist-bumping his wife in terrorist garb, so what?

TAKE A JOKE PEOPLE….

16 07 2008
Rev Leon Lonnie Luv

**warms up Seafood Pasta for lunch to watch the fireworks coming**

16 07 2008
Bajan Girl

“Point is that the more educated a black person seems to be, the less of a sense of humor/reality/satire they seem to have… ”

High five Joel…

My mother always said that common sense and book smarts can’t set horse (i.e. get along or coexist) because as book smarts increases common sense decreases…

16 07 2008
Joel Then

@Bassey: You make an excellent point about the way the mainstream media portrays African Americans, but being as I’m a part of this industry, I do have to point out, that if you want things to be more balanced, you have to be in the space…

Mainly, why is it that BET, promotes shows like Hell Date, while MTV has True Life, and all these other somewhat informative shows. Both networks are Viacom-owned, yet BET puts out garbage compared to it’s sister network…. If black people stopped accepting things that the mainstream media was feeding them, then maybe they would have a chance, but it doesn’t seem like that will ever happen (especially considering how Hell Date is the #1 show on BET)….

16 07 2008
Bassey

“If black people stopped accepting things that the mainstream media was feeding them, then maybe they would have a chance, but it doesn’t seem like that will ever happen (especially considering how Hell Date is the #1 show on BET)….”

I’m also in the industry and one of my good friends works for BET. It’s not as simple as what you just stated. But I’m sure you know that.

16 07 2008
Knatural

set horse? Damn Bajan’s and their backward talk…

Joel – that’s not racist at all. Blacks, and Latinos to a lesser extent, are way too racially sensitive. It’s so annoying because other races know this about us and proceed to walk on eggshells around us in public, or TV, at work. I’m so sick of it. Sometimes our (Blacks) over-sensitivity ruins the potential for honest dialogue about race and other social issues.

16 07 2008
Dom

I have to disagree with you on this one Chris. Although the cover is blatant satire, most Americans will not see it that way. Too many people will see the cartoon at face value and will take it as an affirmation of the internet rumors. I dont think we can give the general American pulic too much credit, I mean they elected Bush and Cheney…twice!

As a person who is pro-Obama, when I first saw the cover on sunday night I was hoping that it would gain national media exposure if only for the offensive image it paints of black men, black women, and muslims. This comic reinforces my belif that no matter how far black people come in academia, the corporate world, or in the political arena we will still always be broken down into the same negative stereotype: Afro-having, “whitey” hating, anti-americans.

We also have to ask ourselves how many other presidential candidates at this point in the election would be characterized so offensively (as Rep Ford pointed out yesterday on the Today Show). Would a right-wing magazine publish a cartoon of an elderly John McCain chaising after an underage beauty queen with piles of cash in the background, while wearing a wedding ring? Or a a cartoon of him sitting at the table with John Kerry trying to get on the dem ticket in 2004? Or even a photo of him hooking up with a dark Indonesian women and having a child out of wedlock? Republicans are smart enough to know that images like that speak a thousand words before McCain even opens his mouth. When we think about it that way we can see that the advantage goes undoubtedly to the republicans, doesnt matter if it was a liberal mag that did the damage.

But I do have to agree that the Obama campaign should have handled this more effectively. They could have used the cover as a vehicle to highlight those stereotypes and stike them down. Perhaps it would have helped to quell the controversy before it even really started.

16 07 2008
Joel Then

I worked on the movie “BlacKout” (I made the website, and managed the online marketing), and BET just didn’t really seem all that interested in the project (just my opinion)… There are just not enough minorities in the media to make a push for change…. Therefore, minorities just deal with the nonsense that’s pumped to them…..

16 07 2008
Joel Then

@Knatural: Good thing we have this site then right?…

16 07 2008
Jo

@Knat–I agree with Jen. I care because I still get people stopping me on the street telling me how brave I am to wear my hair in its natural state, implying that it takes courage not to use the creamy crack. I care because I still get jokes about Black Panther membership. I care because I can’t wear my hair out to work, and yet natural alternatives such as cornrows or braids are still seen as inappropriate and ugly (http://www.diversityinc.com/public/2615.cfm).

I’m not trying to make a political statement. I’m not trying to intimidate anyone. I was just tired of my hair being so ravaged. I was tired of paying $70 every five weeks to essentially kill my hair. I was tired of not being able to play out in the rain (a favorite pastime of mine) or work out without having to go home and overhaul my head.

When will the world get that afro /= flag-burning, card-carrying anarchist?

16 07 2008
Tea

I like the cover. I’m going to save the magazine to commemorate the
BS that he has to deal with.

16 07 2008
KadiBaby

Rev Luv- Of course not, because that is unusual. PR Exec. is not a career where blacks are prevalent also white men are usually portrayed (and considered) as ‘Everyman’ so it wouldn’t be playing to any biases. I think what pushed Hancock to the ‘preconceived bias’ edge is his whole “Drunkenness, Hubris, Unreliable, Press Conference Repentance, Jail Time, Taboo Relationship Having, Otherness.” All things that are popularly identified with black males and specifically black male sports figures. In any case look at most black male movie roles and you’ll see a theme.

That being said, f*ck the establishment and go see Hancock anyway. Will Smith gets paid and it’s a fun movie. Until you have more black producers, screen writers, studio executives and directors your going to have to put up with the bias of someones else’s storyline.

16 07 2008
Bassey

And for the record, I think that we sometimes are not afforded the luxury to simply “take a joke.” Hang around with me and my friends for a few minutes (not even hours) and be prepared to be offended by the stuff we talk/laugh/joke about, HOWEVER, when it comes to how we present ourself and the jokes that are made about us (us being black people) I really don’t think we have the luxury to laugh it off and shrug and say, “oh those crazy white people! So satirical and awesome all the time!”

I, personally, found Hancock offensive and racist. Just about everything about it and had it had redeemed itself in the end, then maybe I’d feel differently. But it is my opinion that the movie was very faulty. Didn’t it bother anyone else that most of the black people in the film were criminals? And not villians. But drug dealers and gang bangers and murderers and thieves up until the very last scene in the movie. So you have a movie about a black superhero with issues. Fine. But within that movie we have every stereotype being played out not only by the lead but by the supporting actors. Not only that, Charlize Theron’s character nearly kills him to protect her family. And HE ends up leaving in order to save her. Why couldnt’ that role have gone to Kerry Washington. or Gabrielle Union. what do I have to do to see a black man protecting a black woman on screen? What do I have to do get a love story for my people? Besides write one. Which is what I am doing.
Maybe, I am reaching but that shit bothered me.
Obviously, your mileage may vary.

16 07 2008
Knatural

Would a right-wing magazine publish a cartoon of an elderly John McCain chaising after an underage beauty queen with piles of cash in the background, while wearing a wedding ring?

No. Because this is real. Right?

16 07 2008
Joel Then

@Bassey: You’re kidding right?…. Please tell me your not serious…

16 07 2008
Alph Dapalf

@ Ariel

The main stream media has always refused to sincerely relate to the public. Especially the minority public. They know it’s called Dap, goddammit and if they didn’t they could have easy pulled any ol’ somebody on the street aside and asked.
But calling it a fist bump and throwing quotations around it gives it it’s foreign, minority edge.

16 07 2008
Cheekie

@Knatural
Sometimes our (Blacks) over-sensitivity ruins the potential for honest dialogue about race and other social issues.

And to some extent, it contributes to this bullshit “not everything is about race” mentality that is running rampant. It’s like the race card default counter-attack for non-blacks. The race card IS abused, and that very fact has allowed other races to spout that phrase EVERYtime an issue comes up that just so happens to actually BE about race. It’s kinda like the Boy Who Crief Wolf thing…now that some have decided to use this card past its maximum limit, non-blacks are hella comfortable shooting out “not everything is about race” for every single possible instance that involves us and in some of those instances, it IS about race.

But since they know we are prone to abuse the race card, people will jump at the opportunity to point it out, even in inappropriate situations.

16 07 2008
Bassey

@Joel: Don’t patronize me. If you disagree then dialogue. Actually, I don’t want to hijack the site with a back and forth. Do whatever.

16 07 2008
aceklub

Now I don’t know the magazine industry or the journalism industry but I would think that the best thing to have done would be to create a cartoon, front and back cover, with both candidates. I think it catches a lot of people attention b/c the cover just has one person so people are not sure of the angle that the magazine is trying to do. Also, I think the magazine has to know what they are doing w/ this cover b/c I heard that they did a nice piece on Obama inside but the cover is going to catch the negative attention. Similar attention to Tiger Woods and the Golf Magazine with a noose on the cover.

16 07 2008
Knatural

When will the world get that afro /= flag-burning, card-carrying anarchist? – Jo

When women proudly wear and stop feeling awkward about it. I understand some jobs have ‘rules’ about hairstyles…Fuck That.
I heard about that Glamour Magazine crap.

16 07 2008
Dom

“I’ll stop being “sensitive” when there is more balance in the mainstream media. I used to sort of gloss over things and just say, “no big deal” until I had a son, who is going to grow up to be a black man in a society that still undervalues him.
I’ll stop being sensitive then.”

Preach Bassey! It is so upsetting to know that stereotypes of black people are being SOLD to black people and we cant get enough of them! And then the few of us who have a knowledge of our history and attempt to voice the outrage are told to shut-up and stop being so damn sensitive!

To me, that comment is almost worse than being called a nigger to my face!

16 07 2008
Bajan Girl

yep Knatural.. set horse… there are days when I don’t even understand what is being said to me (usually granny or some elder is talking and using terms that I just can’t figure out what they could possibly mean) but I digress.

I agree on the sensitivity issue. Everywhere I go this cover is a hot topic. One place it is not being discussed though is in my office. No around the water cooler discussions here. I am wondering if it may have something to do with the fact that I work for a company where I am the only non “white” person. I have taken note of the fact that where conversations of race and religion come into play they are very careful about what if anything they say to me or even ask me.

16 07 2008
Breez

The image is shocking, which is the point, if I’m not mistaken. Satire is supposed to be biting and extreme, so as to provoke dialogue. I appreciate satire most when my initial response is “WTF?!” However, we live in the microwave age where people don’t want to be encouraged to think or explore deeper meanings. That’s how we come to the “chosen few” who decide what the public is “smart” enough to handle.

As an aside to Jen’s comment re: naps scaring the white folks, I have mixed feelings on that. The fro, at it’s inception, was something of a revolutionary statement and I took it as the artist capitalizing on that. My personal experience has been that black folks are FAR more afraid of naps than white folks. I’ve been natural for about three years now, and it’s typically my own people that get up in arms about my hair.

16 07 2008
KadiBaby

Joel Then- I agree with you “TAKE A JOKE PEOPLE” but I also understand where the anger is coming from…blacks (of every culture) in America have always had to ‘take a joke’ because they ALWAYS were THE JOKE. Everyone has their moment where the societal pressure gets too much and they want to scream STOP IT. Of course, that doesn’t get you anywhere but it does help relieve stress. I think that the problem is too many people don’t actively try to buck the system (ie; NOT going to see social irresponsible movies ON PRINCIPLE) they’re all waiting for the next person to lead.

Me, I want to change the system. I’m tired of the same patronizing tired roles and stereotyping. It’s not like movies CAN’T have that but what about OTHER view points….there is not enough diversity.

16 07 2008
Tea

Dom,

Obama did use the cover to address these rumors on Larry King last night. So the cover may have help. But most have already made up their mind about him anyway.

16 07 2008
Joel Then

From my personal experience, the black people who seem to have the most difficulty dealing with things like this tend to be these college-educated, raw-food-eating, I’ll-wear-my-hair-in-a-giant-fro-having, erykah-baduh-listening, african-clothes-wearing, types who have nothing better to do than be offended by everything….

Like, honestly, do you really expect to have a corporate job with your hair looking like a tree?… My favorite is when they say that they are “free” by not having corporate jobs. Now I’m not saying have a 9-5 is everything (I’m a web developer, I make up my schedule as I go along, and I dress as I please), but it’s like one big cover-up….

I work with some people who only buy natural African products, and drink these nasty juices and shit, and I’m just like what the fuck man? Can’t you just be normal? You can be healthy and still be cool….

It’s THOSE TYPES that really anger me, ’cause they’re so full of shit themselves, and then they have the nerve to offer these social commentaries that are so nonsensical, they make Al Sharpton look like he’s a part of MENSA….

16 07 2008
KadiBaby

oops I know I’ve made a few typos

that should read “….socially irresponsible..”

Knatural- See that what I’m talking about! A hair revolution, nobody’s gonna get ‘jumped’ just because I wear braids or a ‘fro. Shoot, people need to get used to seeing “militant” black people….not everybody is meek and mild.

16 07 2008
Dom

“Would a right-wing magazine publish a cartoon of an elderly John McCain chaising after an underage beauty queen with piles of cash in the background, while wearing a wedding ring?

No. Because this is real. Right?”

Damn straight its right, but the right wing media DOWNPLAYED that ish. They didnt put it on the cover of a national magazine which is exactly the point Im making.

16 07 2008
Joel Then

Also, I would like to point out the fact the Black people can be just as racist (if not more so) as white people can be….

16 07 2008
Jo

@Knat: I’m going to point at that comment when my co-workers ask why I decided to wear my hair out tomorrow. 😛 In the interest of exploration, I’ll try it.

Despite my sensitivity regarding my hair, I agree with everyone commenting about Black people being overly-sensitive. This, “Sometimes our (Blacks) over-sensitivity ruins the potential for honest dialogue about race and other social issues.” is so true. It honestly hurts me whenever I witness one of my non-black friends tip-toeing around issues such as this. Everytime somone I love feels the need to qualify a statement with “I’m not racist, but…” a little part of me dies. Damn, you know? Don’t you think I know that? Why else would I hang out with your cracka ass? 🙂

16 07 2008
Bassey


From my personal experience, the black people who seem to have the most difficulty dealing with things like this tend to be these college-educated, raw-food-eating, I’ll-wear-my-hair-in-a-giant-fro-having, erykah-baduh-listening, african-clothes-wearing, types who have nothing better to do than be offended by everything….

Like, honestly, do you really expect to have a corporate job with your hair looking like a tree?… My favorite is when they say that they are “free” by not having corporate jobs. Now I’m not saying have a 9-5 is everything (I’m a web developer, I make up my schedule as I go along, and I dress as I please), but it’s like one big cover-up….

I work with some people who only buy natural African products, and drink these nasty juices and shit, and I’m just like what the fuck man? Can’t you just be normal? You can be healthy and still be cool….

It’s THOSE TYPES that really anger me, ’cause they’re so full of shit themselves, and then they have the nerve to offer these social commentaries that are so nonsensical, they make Al Sharpton look like he’s a part of MENSA….

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!

16 07 2008
Dom

Tea

I didnt see any coverage of that and I have to wonder how many other people will. I certainly doubt it will be more people than see the photo.

16 07 2008
KadiBaby

Joel Then- You are also correct about the hair thing, but I have to say it is a pretty simple solution. A large ‘fro or long locks like long hair on white men, may not be appropriate for the corporate environment. However, having your hair cut low or in small braids is hard for ‘some people’ to stomach. So there does need to be open dialogue between the predominately white corporations and their ‘minority development group’ or whatever in HR to discuss what preferences they have to appearance/attire. Unfortunately, in America most people like to ignore racial or cultural differences until they become contentious ie; Muslim attire vs. Sikh attire.

16 07 2008
ayo

Joel then…. you’re killing me: “Like, honestly, do you really expect to have a corporate job with your hair looking like a tree?… ”

While I can understand (and maybe agree with) you contempt for hearing whining, this is insane. GOD created the hair that grows from black peoples heads. Are we supposed to apologize for that shit? Sorry, but THAT irritated me and explains why the ma in your myspace pic is YT or damn near.

But I was going to send you a link to this article explaining why SOME black ppl feel the movie was racist: http://sohhdotcom.typepad.com/sohhcom/2008/07/hh4prez-blog-wa.html — Personally I saw the movie and it was OK to me. You don’t have to agree with Jasiri X, but such is the story of life. I mean how would you feel if Hancock was named Jesus and wore white t-s and pressed khakis and said spoke with an accent while chewing on a churro?
But um , as far as Black ppl being sensitive, that is true. We are. But, trust that the latino’s will get their chance since you guys have usurped the lead minority situation in America. When you hear ‘cans and spics then see how sensitive you get.

16 07 2008
janet

i’d like to self aggrandize your pee-pee, chris

16 07 2008
KadiBaby

Joel-DUH everyone has the potential to be racist! I think you need to head over to the Racialicious blog and maybe you’ll realize that the issues that we’re talking about don’t just effect black people but that most minorities in America have a problem with their views and attitudes being portrayed as unidimensional.

16 07 2008
Joel Then

@KadiBaby: I agree with you wholeheartedly, my only request is that if you are going to have any kind of hairstyle, don’t go overboard.. I’ve been to offices where people have a bunch of crazy shit in their hair, and it smells like fuckin’ seaweed and what-not…. That’s just ridiculous.

White people are afraid of minorities, and with good reason, as there are many who can compete at a high level and be just as (if not more) successful.

I’m not even going to get started on the non-educated types who get jobs at places like Target, the mailroom, etc…. They deserve their own blog entry, as they are a disservice to all educated/reasonable minorities everywhere…

Also, as a side point, I’d like to point out that even though I have nothing against someone trying to live a healthy lifestyle and make an impact on their community/friends/etc., I must say that a lot of this nonsense about hydro-colonics, raw-foods, etc. is just hippie bullshit used by so-called educated people to scare you into joining their cults of Bohemia….. Point is, have a balanced diet, and exercise, and you’ll be fine. You don’t need these green drinks to “detoxify” your body… Besides, have you ever smelled these people? It’s like death in a can…

16 07 2008
Irami

I’ll say it: I don’t care whether Obama is elected. We don’t agree on gun control, the death penalty, I don’t care about Iraq, and I think he is a chicken-shit when it comes to education. (read: If you want to talk about community responsibility and public education, quit harranging from the pulpit, walk the walk, and send your kids to your local public school. And until you are ready to do that, shut the hell up.) The guy is another “centrist”/yuppie black douchebag scared of white people. I’m starting to think this guy is such a coward that blacks would have done better under Bill Bradley or Howard Dean.

16 07 2008
KadiBaby
16 07 2008
Joel Then

@ Ayo: I read the SOHH article after one of my co-workers gave me a speech about how I shouldn’t see Hancock, I wish I had just kept my mouth shut about going to see the movie…. Also, I’m not saying that black people need to apologize for their hair, just be balanced about that shit. Honestly, just be a normal human being and shit will be all good….

And yes, my fiance is white, and I constantly get the evil look from both black and latin women who get upset because someone as intelligent and successful as myself didn’t stick with a sister or a mami… To that I say, STEP YOUR GAME UP LADIES…..

16 07 2008
Monie

“Like, honestly, do you really expect to have a corporate job with your hair looking like a tree?…” – Joel Then

“Can’t you just be normal?” – Joel Then

Joel Then is obviously a racist. Statements like that are the exact reason we are sensitive to what people say.

16 07 2008
Joel Then

@Monie: I am an equal-opportunity hater, I don’t care about race, I have a contemptuous outlook towards people in general, regardless of who you are, or where you are from…

16 07 2008
ayo

step it up like the white girls huh?

16 07 2008
stuffblackpeoplehate

This is about to get really hilarious…

16 07 2008
Cheekie

@ Joel Then

“Like, honestly, do you really expect to have a corporate job with your hair looking like a tree?… ”

Like, honestly, do you really expect people to accept this bullshit?

16 07 2008
Rev Leon Lonnie Luv

I think this is a fucking troll.

Really, what is ‘normal’? Next, Joel will be talking about us being in “Blackville”

16 07 2008
ayo

Joel Then: So what should a ‘balanced’ black girls hair look like? *running to get notebook*

16 07 2008
Cheekie

LMFAO @ Blackville. Not-so-great memories of that “Let’s not get ghettooo” fool.

16 07 2008
Joel Then

@Ayo: I celebrated my six-year anniversary with my girl yesterday, and I must say that the reason I have been with a white woman is because of the following: (and yes, this will sound tired, and ignorant to everyone, but I’m speaking from my own personal experience, not anyone else’s) Black women are too argumentative and self-defeatist, and latin women are too controlling and demanding. I have dated both, and that is the feeling I had, and that’s why I kept it moving…. My girl may be white, but that does not mean she is not a strong woman with a desire for success and ambition. She keeps me on my toes, and pushes me just as hard as any black or latin woman possibly could.

@Cheekie: I don’t expect people to accept anything I say or think, so therefore, I don’t go out of my way to shove things down people’s throats in attempt to further my beliefs. If you don’t agree with me, then whatever. This is America, you can think what you want, lol….

16 07 2008
Monie

“I am an equal-opportunity hater, I don’t care about race, I have a contemptuous outlook towards people in general, regardless of who you are, or where you are from…”

@Joel Then

A lot of racists say that.

16 07 2008
KadiBaby

LOL @ Joel “I’d like to point out that even though I have nothing against someone trying to live a healthy lifestyle……. I must say that a lot of this nonsense about hydro-colonics, raw-foods, etc. is just hippie bullshit used by so-called educated people to scare you into joining their cults of Bohemia….”

That is true once again, but I doubt you’ll find ANY of those people on THIS blog. I, for one, am NOT down with that ish…and I’m a vegetarian; but I choose to eat ice cream&cake, and eat eggs and fish. Everything is about balance and moderation. Some people just try TOO HARD. I say, stay angry Joel!! And come vent regularly at this blog…maybe Chris will even let you ‘guest write’.

16 07 2008
KadiBaby

Oops…spoke too soon. LOL

Cosign Chris!! HA HAAA

16 07 2008
Elle

For the love of God Joel, blanket statement much?

Yesterday we had Anna and here you go.

Ya’ll making my head hurt.

16 07 2008
Joel Then

@Monie: If you really think I’m racist, then I’ll just let you think that… It’s your mind, I can’t change it…

@Ayo: I don’t think there is a such thing as “balanced” anything… I just think that people should try to be as centered as possible, meaning they should be grounded in reality while ambitious enough to pursue success, and cognizant of opportunity… Mainly, if a guy is a good guy, then give him a shot… Don’t know if that makes sense, but that’s my take on it…

16 07 2008
benjie

is it wrong that i like completley blocked all of this out?
every morning i’m reminded about the whole mag cover thing when i turn the news on.
i didn’t care. and i still don’t. my friends are pissed, but my response was basically the same as chris. like… it’s the new yorker. if you read it, you would get it. but ah well…. someone will say/print something else stupid about him soon and we’ll all forget about this….

but…
joel then… whats going on over there sweets?
normal?
in all honesty, the way that most black women (including myself) wear their hair is abnormal. the “tree” look actually is the norm for most. perms baby, stress the hair and cause it to fall out. your perception of what normal is, happens to have nothing to do with black women or the culture.

maybe someone else needs to step their game up.

16 07 2008
Rev Leon Lonnie Luv

Joel, what the fuck do you want, a goddamn cookie? Or let me rephrase that, since “I’m not racist”, a tres leches cake?! With mayonaise for your Becky…

GTFOH.

16 07 2008
Monie

Okay I’m bored with Joel Then now…next topic please.

16 07 2008
Joel Then

@Benjie: Maybe you’re right… But for my personal qualifications, if it won’t rock in the workplace, then why would that shit fly with me?… I don’t want to date someone who lets their shit look like a jungle…. At the same time, I’m not saying braids are a bad thing… What I am saying is that presentability is important….

16 07 2008
Cheekie

@Joel Then:

1. Congrats on your anniversary. No congrats on your narrow-minded view on non-white women. Yeah, you’re basing it on your personal experiences, but still, try opening up that mind a bit.

2. When I said “accept”, I meant, do you expect people to accept corporations dictating whether someone’s hair (not just the style, the hair itself) is professional or not, especially considering the intention behind it.

16 07 2008
Joel Then

LMAO @ Rev. Leon Lonnie Luv

16 07 2008
Rev Leon Lonnie Luv

Anyway, I know we’re not up to 100 comments yet, but I need to get you guy’s perspective on something…

I open up my email inbox…

I see an email regarding my 10-Year HS reunion for next year…

The cost is $150 (not that bad)

But one of the events is a “Meet and Greet” in the HS parking lot.

There are 3 total events (banquet and picnic too), but I’ll be damned if I’m paying $50 to meet some folks in a fucking parking lot! Half of whom could still go kick rocks to this day… Am I right, or am I right?

16 07 2008
Joel Then

@Cheekie: No, I don’t expect anyone to accept anything… However, I do feel that as a reasonable human-being (which I’m sure you are), you have a responsibility to both yourself and the rest of society to look decent and presentable (whatever that may be)….

I’m not sure how to further expand on this seeing as how everyone’s expectations are different, I speak of my own mind…..

16 07 2008
angrywhitewoman

The cover of the magazine is a problem and Hancock was racist as hell. I’m white, so no, its not all about black folk being too sensitive and playing the “race card”. In a country FOUNDED on the oppression of black and native people, what an offensive fucking term!!!

While condescending liberal yuppie douches get on my nerves too, I know that the next time I talk to my grandmother on the phone, she’s going to say something about Obama being a terrorist. She doesn’t read the New Yorker, and she would not have known that that image is supposed to be satire (it’s a cartoon, NOT a photograph goddammit). Do I think my grandmother is stupid? Hell no. Is she even more sure that Obama is a “Moslem terrorist” now? Hell yes. Regardless of how tough-skinned you are, words and images matter.

On Hancock, and the media in general: In addition to what Bassey says re: “what do I have to do to see a black man protecting a black woman on screen?”, it is also depressing that in the unusual fucking occasion that we see an interracial relationship on screen, it turns out that they are literally each other’s kryptonite. WTF?! No way I believe that that is just a coincidence or a way to sell more because they used Will Smith. All of us take a message away from that and my heart hurts when I think about what that does to any kid that comes out of an interracial relationship. I don’t care how “colorblind” anyone tries to be (which in my opinion is either a function of privilege or internalized oppression), it is a fucking challenge to be in an interracial relationship, for many reasons. For some of us, love overcomes all that, but its still painful to have bullshit like Hancock thrown in your face. And no Joel Then, I’m not whining, I’M ANGRY. 😀

16 07 2008
benjie

rev-
fuck that. only people that meet in parking lots are fixing to have rumbles. and are they renting a parking lot?? lmao.

joel…
i think what you are referring to is basic cleanliness (or at least thats what i hope) no one wants a dirty, unkempt person working for them. you’re right. but, it seemed as if you meant women with natural hair.

clarification maybe?

16 07 2008
B4Prez

I’m gonna hold a prayer circle for this Joel character. He doesn’t have the sense he was born with. I think this dude meant to go to stuffforblackpeoplewhohateblackpeople.com. SMH @……..virtually everything you have to say.

16 07 2008
Prime Minister Cinema

2 Chris

“I draw SHARP distinctions between iintelligence and education.”

“Obama has way bigger problems that a magazine whose cartoon, while controversial, will do nothing but help his chances.”

we are on the same book, chapter, page, paragraph and sentence. down to the letter.

we should form a brain trust. holla the fuck back.

16 07 2008
Monie

“There are 3 total events (banquet and picnic too), but I’ll be damned if I’m paying $50 to meet some folks in a fucking parking lot! Half of whom could still go kick rocks to this day… Am I right, or am I right?”

Rev,

Lmaoooo! That is pretty bad. I’ve never heard of such a thing. Thething is; since it’s outside in a parking lot, how will they keep people out that didn’t pay?

Just crash the party!

16 07 2008
Joel Then

@Benjie: You’re correct, I’m not sure why I didn’t just mention cleanliness…….

@B4Prez: *Shrugs*

16 07 2008
ayo

So Joel Then…
Your saying black women should straighten their hair every now and then (for balance) to be appealing to a latio man who doesnt like black or latino women and who loves and is marrying a white woman…? ROTFL!!!! This shit is fucking HILARIOUS!!!!!

Joel Then now says: I don’t think there is a such thing as “balanced” anything: STOP BACK TRACKING!!!! you did say it!: “I’m not saying that black people need to apologize for their hair, just be balanced about that shit.” WE KNOW HOW TO READ HERE. Grow some nuts.

16 07 2008
Rev Leon Lonnie Luv

And they want to meet from 8 PM-10 PM in a city that is well known for being one of the most dangerous small cities in America. What would 100 black folks in a parking lot on a Friday night in a city whose police department that is now ran by a redneck ass sheriff because our ignant, corrupt ass mayor appointed him to the job? Fuck you very much Frank Melton!

16 07 2008
akissy

@ Joel – “do you really expect to have a corporate job with your hair looking like a tree?… ”

I was agreeing with you up until this fucked up comment!
But you’re right, this is a free country….

16 07 2008
Rev Leon Lonnie Luv

I guess ya’ll can tell I really hated my HS years + my ‘wonderful’ hometown of Jackson, MS, huh? LMAO…

16 07 2008

@ joel
“Black women are too argumentative and self-defeatist, and latin women are too controlling and demanding. I have dated both, and that is the feeling I had, and that’s why I kept it moving…. My girl may be white, but that does not mean she is not a strong woman with a desire for success and ambition. She keeps me on my toes, and pushes me just as hard as any black or latin woman possibly could.”

You just showed your age, inexperience and ignorance.
You have been with this girl for six years, so your experience with black women started when? when you were 9? lord have mercy.

My mother and father have been married for 30 years, they have had 3 arguments and my mother is none of the above.

My best freinds parents have been married for 35+ years, and neither of them believe in arguing ang raising their voice at one another.

My point? Not all black women are argumentive and yadda yadda whatever you said. If you want to go there I’m sure your white girl gave you head the first time you met her 6+ years ago in the 4th grade gave you head?

Fuck outta here, IF YOU AREN’T ATTRACTED TO BLACK WOMEN THAT IS YOUR BUSINESS! dont sit up here and make dumb ass statements about what you know NOTHING about.

Congrats on your anniversary!

16 07 2008
Monie

Mississppi..oh my..I’m so sorry to hear that. Well atleast you made it out of there! 🙂

16 07 2008
Joel Then

@Ayo: Fair enough, you got me on the previous statement I made. The intention behind the words was different though, but anyhow, as Benjie pointed out, the real point I was trying to make was about the basic cleanliness of a person…

And nobody has to do anything to appeal to me, lol…. Do whatever the fuck you want man, I could care less… I’ll probably never even meet any of you so what does it matter anyway? It’s just the internet….

16 07 2008
B4Prez

Are you’ll seriously arguing about Hancock? It’s a Will Smith film; what did you expect?

Will Smith has been the ‘magical negro’ in 9 out of 10 of his films. While everyone likes to do cartwheels about a black man being the top box office draw, everyone conveniently ignores the fact that he’s always there to save YT in the end. Though he’s always the star, he’s virtually always the ONLY black in the film. I’m wondering if they’re filming out in N. Dakota or something….o sorry, I forgot about the ‘wife’ he gets every 3rd film, where she gets 3 lines and spends the rest of the film with that intense ‘black wife stare’ they love so much in Hollywood.

The man couldn’t even get them to approve Halle Berry as the love interest in Hitch! 2 blacks is too much for the masses to digest apparently.

Bottom line, Im gonna need the so-called ‘ebp’ to stop having a problem with everything that’s black, that doesn’t involve Jill Scott and India Arie; otherwise, we will always be sitting here wondering why we can’t see more than one black face on tv at a time.

16 07 2008

btw

I wouldn’t want any of my fellow “sistas” with someone as “intelligent” and ignorant as you are anyway.

Did you suck your thumb as a child?

16 07 2008
voodoobooty

joel needs to take his self-hating kalinga ass somewhere and sit down and shut the fuck up, if you love your white woman stop frontin’

you obviously do not understand the politics of hair

nasty juices? you are so misguided my brother, i hope your white woman makes you nice smoothies and puts a banana in it – fuckin uncle tom

sorry i’m ranting and thank you to all the sistahs who read him for the filth, honey miss joel is not ready for what the girls are serving today

16 07 2008
ayo

Joel Then… this is a place to speak your feelings… Get them out! I mean, I don’t want you going postal on all the sensitive black people at your office. We respect your right to your opinion but don’t have to agree. Everyone gets jumped on here including Chris…. this is your welcome.

16 07 2008
Knatural

Tree hair? AAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHHAHA funny

16 07 2008
TomatoHead

I have to say my piece about everything that has been going on here:

The cartoon is funny. The New Yorker is boring. The image isn’t going to change anyone’s perception of Obama and those who get it get it and those who don’t never would anyway, so why are you getting all offended and up in arms about it?

About natural hair: You ladies who wear your hair natural know that it isn’t socially acceptable in some work circles. Not all, but some. I highly doubt neat braids will get you fired but even I would give the side-eye to someone coming in with an afro because NO ONE wears an afro anymore. That was a style thing and represented revolution. Why you don’t understand this is a mystery to me. If you wear your hair in a short, neat fro, then no biggie. But if your hand disappears into your hair, then you are doing too much.

About straightened hair: My hair has never fallen out from being straightened. Ever. My sisters’ hair hasn’t fallen out and neither has my mother’s. By the way, she has mini-locs now and everyone at her work loves them. Including her YT boss.

I’m not even going to touch on Joel’s dumb ass.

Hancock was not racist.

16 07 2008
B4Prez

@Joel – The comment was for the others. You’ve made it obvious that you wouldn’t ‘get it’.

16 07 2008
Joel Then

@Ne: I was waiting for the typical angry female response, and you gave it to me, so congratulations on being the first one. As far as your parents are concerned, its great that they have been together 35 years (congrats), and that’s also a perfect example of a secure couple. Yet, as I stated in the line before the sentence you quoted, I was only speaking from my own limited experience, so please don’t be so down-trodden about the way I feel… Also, you are just proving my point about being argumentative. There was no reason to get so upset and type out an angry response like that. You could have just acknowledged that I was speaking from limited experience and kept it moving….

Also, who are you to question my experiences (or lack thereof)? You don’t even know me, so why take it so personally?

(Yet another prime example of an angry black woman…)

*Waits patiently for angry reply rant about how I know nothing about anything, and I’m a young, racist idiot*

16 07 2008
Monie

The worst thing I saw in a Will Smith film was in Independence Day. Vivica Fox played his girlfriend and she for some crazy reason was a STRIPPER?! WTF!

What was the point of her being a stripper? Couldn’t she have been a convenience store clerk if they wanted her to be a non-professional!

16 07 2008
voodoobooty

About natural hair: You ladies who wear your hair natural know that it isn’t socially acceptable in some work circles. Not all, but some. I highly doubt neat braids will get you fired but even I would give the side-eye to someone coming in with an afro because NO ONE wears an afro anymore. That was a style thing and represented revolution. Why you don’t understand this is a mystery to me. If you wear your hair in a short, neat fro, then no biggie. But if your hand disappears into your hair, then you are doing too much.

wow, just wow

16 07 2008
Knatural

Hey, is Will Smith shirtless in Hancock?
If so, I’m definitely going to see it!

16 07 2008
voodoobooty

*Waits patiently for angry reply rant about how I know nothing about anything, and I’m a young, racist idiot*

awwww you already said it plum bun!

16 07 2008
ayo

Joel Then…
How ’bout them Mets?
Please move on.

16 07 2008
Joel Then

I’m glad I wrote my comments today, it saved me from having to talk with the rest of the ridiculous EBP’s in my office..

Thank you everyone, for even acknowledging me. 🙂

16 07 2008

Joel

I am not angry at all lol.
Argumentative? maybe, when it comes to standing up for somethign I believe in. My man will tell you straight up, the relationship we are in is the best relationship he has ever had.

Do we argue? Hell no. Do we disagree? of course. He doesn’t have to worry about nagging or me checking his phone.

What got me about you, is you came here on a blog where there are mostly black women and ran your mcdonald arch.

WHY speak on something you aren’t experienced in?

16 07 2008
Jo

@ Joel Then: When I get up in arms about my hair, it’s not because I want to wear it out in a huge cloud/halo around my face. For me, a black woman wearing a large afro is akin to a non-black woman wearing her hair down to work. Obviously, white women either cut their hair short or put it in a ponytail/up-do while on the job, and I don’t mind pulling my hair back likewise. What gets me is that the alternatives I have for my hair are limited based on a cultural view that all nappy hair is inherently dirty. If I recall correctly, some major airline fired a few of its black employees for wearing braids recently.

I’m not angry. I’m just frustrated that, as a little black girl, I grew up being taught that the way my hair comes out of my head naturally was somehow ugly compared to that of non-black women’s. What I think many of us are arguing for is not the right to wear our hair any old way, but the right to wear it in ways that reflect the reality of its natural growth.

16 07 2008
Mrs.Epps

When I 1st saw the pic I snorted and I wanted to get mad, I got mad but then thought to myself, “It’s the fucking New Yoker” why are you mad girl??? its expected that New Yoker would do some shit like that. I say let them have there fun.

16 07 2008
TomatoHead

The hair situation with black women has always been a contentious issue with me because I really feel that you ladies who wear your hair natural are just making life harder for yourselves, and then whining about it. If you wear your hair natural, great. Go ahead. Just know the consequences of your decision. You KNOW other people get weirded out when they see natural hair. You KNOW that a lot of corporate offices want you to not wear your hair natural. Stop getting pissed about it as it is probably never going to change.

If you want to make life harder for yourself, go ahead and do it. Just don’t bitch and complain every chance you get about how your personal choice is affecting your life.

16 07 2008
akissy

*Waits patiently for angry reply rant about how I know nothing about anything, and I’m a young, racist idiot*

um… no. who cares if you don’t date black women? Being African, I only date black men. I don’t make a big deal out of it, I’m just not attracted to any other race. That’s it, that’s all

16 07 2008
Rev Leon Lonnie Luv

ya’ll are still giving this bitchmade muhfucka all this attention?

Joel, please go back to your trailer trash wench and leave us the fuck alone. Better yet, go jump onto the BQE and play with 18 wheelers.

That is all…

16 07 2008
Cheekie

“*Waits patiently for angry reply rant about how I know nothing about anything, and I’m a young, racist idiot*”

Joel, that statement right there makes you reek of internet troll. And calling Ne “argumentative”? Aren’t you the one who made blanket statements expecting a response (you even prefaced your posts with you knowing you’re “never hear the end of this”)? The pot has most def met the kettle.

16 07 2008
Joel Then

Again, I was speaking from my own, limited experience, and was giving an explanation as to why I am not with a black or latin woman..

@Ayo: I was actually cut by the Mets minor league system…. My favorite team dumped my ass… My feelings have been hurt ever since…..

16 07 2008
Jamerican Muslimah

I agree with Bailey Blues, esp,. when you say “but I think people neglect the other implications that this cover implies”

As a Muslim, that is my issue. I have a problem with the implication that all Muslims are equated with terrorists, that we all revere Osama bin Laden and that we all hate America.

16 07 2008

wow end of my rant… lol doesn’t make sense.

16 07 2008
ayo

Lets talk about this instead: (cause my head is about to explode in a tree shape where you cant see your hand)
http://www.byroncrawford.com/2008/07/serena-williams.html
Could any of us take Serena out in a fight?

16 07 2008
Rev Leon Lonnie Luv

Anyfuckingway:

I know I asked this in the last thread, but this one popped up, so:

Aretha’s vs. Patti Labelle’s for Sunday Dinner/Cookout? Discuss…

16 07 2008
Knatural

See, this is the problem: we conform and yield in so many ways, socially. Why should I straighten my hair to be accepted? Why is a Eurocentric ideal of beauty the only acceptable notion? Earning a job, making a profession should rely on my skill, merit, resourcefulness, not how my hair looks. Blacks are always waiting on permission to make their every move. When will it be okay for Black women to wear their natural hair in a professional, corporate setting?

16 07 2008
TomatoHead

Jamerican,

It’s unfortunate, but that is the way it is in America. Ignorant Americans see any type of Muslim guard and scream “TERRORIST!” Minority groups get the shit end of the stick here, no matter what kind of minority you are.

16 07 2008
TomatoHead

Muslim GARB*

16 07 2008
akissy

@ tomatohead – I understand that natural hairstyles are not mainstream, but why are we making our lives harder? That doesn’t make sense to me. I’ve had my hair natural for the last 7 years and have never had a problem with it at any job. And I don’t shove it down ppls throats just like women with relaxed hair shouldn’t try to convince me that it’s better to straighten MY hair.

Please stop putting women with natural hair in the same bag… I’m not making a statement, I just prefer having my hair natural and can manage better when it is so.

16 07 2008
TomatoHead

Knat: then sue them over it. Bitch to them about it. Tell them that you have a right to wear your hair however you want to. Tell them they are taking away your civil liberties. SOMETHING. Don’t just sit there scratching your ass saying “woe is me, I can’t wear my hair naturally”, DO something about it. Shit.

16 07 2008
Sister Toldja

I agree with the post to a certain extent. But at the end of the day:

-Intelligent people alone can’t elect Obama. There aren’t enough of us in America.
-Black people alone can’t elect Obama.
-“Latte-sipping liberals” alone, regardless of their intelligence level, can’t elect Obama

At some point, Obama does in fact need some of the peanut butter and NASCAR cassarole eating yokels of America to vote for him and stand behind him. Many of these folks are base enough to equate Islam (and even Afros and fist bumps) with terrorism, despite having elected our current president who unleashed a Christian oil jihad on the Islamic world.

Most Americans are stupid. And an image like this will fly over their stupid heads. While we can ignore it, as intelligent people, because we “get it”, we would also be leaving Fox News to be the primary interpreters for the yokels. Basically, someone has to refute and complain about this image so that the cousin fuckers will understand that Obama is not a Black Panther NOI member who wants to enslave them, but rather, an intelligent and honest man from humble begginings who actually wants to make the country a better place for all of us.

God damn America!

16 07 2008
Mrs.Epps

wtf is Tree Hair? lol thats hilarious….Joel are you white boo? Or are you black with a phat booty white girlfriend…You say black women like to nag and argue…not always true stop watching BET and black cinema, we aint all baby mama’s living with our Moms in the projects that wear blonde weave. 🙂

NE -If you want to go there I’m sure your white girl gave you head the first time you met her 6+ years ago in the 4th grade gave you head?

you are tooo freakin funnnnnyyyyyyy!!!!

16 07 2008
Mrs.Epps

Rev-ya’ll are still giving this bitchmade muhfucka all this attention?

Joel, please go back to your trailer trash wench and leave us the fuck alone. Better yet, go jump onto the BQE and play with 18 wheelers.

That is all…

Your my new Hero ahhahah

16 07 2008
TomatoHead

akissy: I agree with you. I should have said “some” women with natural hair. I apologize but when I want to say something, I typically don’t qualify my statements. I obviously didn’t mean every single solitary natural haired woman, I meant those who complain about their hair every chance they get.

16 07 2008
Cheekie

@Jamerican
“As a Muslim, that is my issue. I have a problem with the implication that all Muslims are equated with terrorists, that we all revere Osama bin Laden and that we all hate America.”

I think cover was calling out the ignorance of the already existing implication, not implying it. Kinda forcing people who believe that B.S. to look at themselves and their ignorant views in the mirror. It is too bad that not everyone “got it”, but exaggerated displays to make a point have been done before and it ain’t nothin’ new. Sometimes, that “in your face” attitude is necessary, especially for such controversial issues. Sometimes, politely stating an issue just doesn’t cut it.

16 07 2008
Monie

Sister Toldja,

NASCAR fans are not voting for Obama period. He can forget about getting their votes. In fact I think he’s going to have a hard time getting non-NASCAR White people to vote for him. A lot of them will say they will but in the voting booth they won’t. (The Bradley Effect)

16 07 2008
Knatural

Tomatohead (I laugh everytime I see your avatar) – Personally, I don’t have a problem with my natural hair at work. I hope I didn’t imply that I did. I totally agree that complaining without taking action is stupid. And that if/when one decides to be chemical-free, they should definitely be aware of the perception-shift that will occur.

16 07 2008
Jen

WHY did I go grocery shopping when I did? Is Joel still here? I would like to tear his ass to pieces.

16 07 2008
Bajan Girl

“Joel, what the fuck do you want, a goddamn cookie? Or let me rephrase that, since “I’m not racist”, a tres leches cake?! With mayonaise for your Becky…”

That’s it.. this is officially hilarious… I just accidentally hung up on a client because I was laughing so hard …

Umm.. correct me if I am wrong (as I am a newbie here) but I thought we already made it clear that blanket statements and generalisations are a sure fire way to catch a verbal ass whuppin.. was I mistaken??? obviously Mr. Then is a little slow on the uptake on that point.. and to think I was agreeing with him at one point.. smh.. smh..

16 07 2008

“Most Americans are stupid.”

I couldn’t agree more!

16 07 2008

we have one running rampid on this very blog

16 07 2008
Cheekie

Everytime I think of Obama appealing to mainstream white America I think of the Michael Baisden radio show when a group of men called in during primary season to say they were voting for Obama. The Biker Bigots, I think they’re name was. ROFL…

16 07 2008
Irami

[I]Blacks are always waiting on permission to make their every move. [/I]

That’s the problem.

16 07 2008
TomatoHead

LOL Bajan Girl: blanket statements will get you seriously in trouble. I have been an idiot and made one :P. Mortification ensued.

Ne: please don’t take this the wrong way but….rampid=rampant

16 07 2008
Sister Toldja

Joel, you are fucking WACK! WACK WACK WACK! Why are you so concerned with Black people and what we do? Go the fuck away. UGH. I would be a natural ass if I went to stufflatinoshate.com and started telling y’all how you should wear your hair, and to stop being so sensitive. Die, die, die!

I actually spent a couple of hours chatting with Kevin Powell last night and he is such an amazing man. YOU are bitch made, YOU are a punk.

Who in the fuck CARES what you think about militant Black people? Go back to your White woman and continue your proud assimilation.

16 07 2008
Muse

Aww it’s time for me to put on my political monster hat…

As someone who has had an active susbscription to the New Yorker for the past three years I want to point out a few interesting tidbits:

-Obama is not dressed as a Muslim, since there is no Muslim dress. He is dressed in a thobe, which is typical of those in the Middle East and North Africa.

-The problem with the cover is that there’s no satire in it. Some people are saying it’s an obvious joke and that we should be able to joke about Obama. However, there’s no actual joke anywhere on that cover.There are exaggerations on that cover, but that’s true of every political cartoon. When people see an image of Bush talking to an elephant in a suit, they don’t think the artist meant that Bush was literally talking to an elephant in a suit, they know that the elephant represents republicans. The cover conjures images of angry black women, black panthers, middle easterners (how do our arab-american brothers and sisters feel?!), and protesters in general. What would have been more appropriate would have been a series of cartoons each addressing the issue and a more too-the-point caption. Now look at the image again. When people see the flag in the fireplace and Mrs. Obama with a gun, they know that isn’t meant literally. Those images represent a lack of patriotism and a radical mindset. People know that political cartoons aren’t literal, even when they represent real things.
So what *is* in the cover picture? A list of rumors. That’s it, just a list of rumors. No images of the people who believe these rumors, nothing to imply that they’re false, it’s just a list of rumors. This is the direct cartoon equivalent of those false e-mails people send out. A list of rumors with no context is not a parody, it’s just spreading the rumors. People who don’t buy the New Yorker but see it on stands now have another image that reinforces the rumors.

16 07 2008
Knatural

Oh. I was just having lunch with some co-workers, all White, and the topic of The New Yorker came up. I told them it was funny, satire, and they all got real indignant…for me, I’m sure. They said they were most offended by the Flag burning in the fireplace. AAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

16 07 2008
Dom

“(Yet another prime example of an angry black woman.”

Please ignore this guy, he’s clearly a moron. Moving on…

@ Rev. LLL Thats hilarious! A parking lot? Considering the fact that I didnt like 95% of the people I went to hight school with, I’d be damned if I paid anything more than $20 to see them jokers! And thats STILL too much!

I have a 5 year coming up in November and the only reason I’m going is cuz my best friend is the former class Prez and is putting it together. Otherwise I dont see the point of spending $ on it. I kept contact with all the people I wanted to from hs.

On the other hand, it might be fun to go and laugh at all the people who are fat.

16 07 2008
Monie

I always hear people talking about Michael Baisden. I have no idea who he is other than he apparently has a radio show that’s only broadcast in markets with lots of Black people.

16 07 2008
Joel Then

I find it hysterical that most of you feel so strongly about the opinions I stated…. I’m flattered you people even take the time to read the shit I write up…

16 07 2008
Monie

OMG! I just looked at Joel Then’s MySpace pic..it all makes sense now!! Lmaooooo!

16 07 2008

thanks tomato 🙂

Joel we are black people who read. You write on a blog that we entertain ourselves on everyday.You are not special homeskillet.

16 07 2008
Mrs.Epps

Most Americans are stupid.. thats the best statement i heard all day…

“Joel, what the fuck do you want, a goddamn cookie? Or let me rephrase that, since “I’m not racist”, a tres leches cake?! With mayonaise for your Becky…”

I love you guys….sigh..

16 07 2008

OMG! I just looked at Joel Then’s MySpace pic..it all makes sense now!! Lmaooooo!

lmaooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
:grabs side:

16 07 2008
Aisha

I didn’t even know that was Obama until you said it was (that’s how outlandish the cartoon is…and that’s how bad my eyes are sans my glasses). And The New Yorker? LMFAO…I swear I almost went “what the fuck is that?” because I don’t read it. The last thing I read was this 24 page spread about Karl Lagerfield and that just about solidified my proclivity for ignoring the magazine altogether.

People love to get their knickers in a knot to make themselves feel more important. My guess is all the thin air up their on their high horses must be contributing to their self-induced delusions of grandeur.

16 07 2008
TomatoHead

“Joel we are black people who read. You write on a blog that we entertain ourselves on everyday.You are not special homeskillet”

HAHAHHHAHAHAA

16 07 2008
TomatoHead

Seriously Joel…don’t be flattered just because some people who were bored at work decided to humor your dumb troll ass.

OMG EVERYONE; His girlfriend is probably ANNA!

16 07 2008
Alph Dapalf

I wear my hair natural because I like to swim, sweat, and wet my entire body in the shower as often as I please.

16 07 2008
Mrs.Epps

Joel-“you people”

gotta love america… this ass is 22 yrs old according to his myspace. He’s older than me ARE YOU SERIOUS BWAHAHHAHAH… well i guess it true when they say girls mature faster than boys.

No one gives a fuck what you have to say reallly…its the fact that you continue to put your foot in your mouth. We are trying to stop you from making a big mistake.

16 07 2008

ahhh! Tomato head it all make sense. He is amd she got booted and went on a “I love my cracker ass cracker” rant.

Forgive me for calling her a cracker.

16 07 2008
Mrs.Epps

Joel is mullato…

16 07 2008
Merri Lee

Haven’t the comments yet, but other than your violation of the Third Commandment, I largely agree with you. I don’t know if it’s pure satire, but they were obviously trying to provoke a strong reaction. And they succeeded. Whoop – de – damn – do. A much funnier topic would have been Jesse “I’m mic’d up in a TV studio in front of a camera and THIS THING IS ON?????” Jackson. Funnier than Dave Chapelle, Chris Rock and 1980s Eddie Murphy combined.

16 07 2008
Jen

“I forgot about the ‘wife’ he gets every 3rd film, where she gets 3 lines and spends the rest of the film with that intense ‘black wife stare’ they love so much in Hollywood.”

*dies*

“They said they were most offended by the Flag burning in the fireplace.”

*is resurrected, and dies again*

16 07 2008
Mrs.Epps

I love my cracker ass cracker.. ya’llll soo meannnnNNNNNNN.

His girl look like her name is Nicole or Bethany

AHHHH someone’s innner fat girl escaped!!!

16 07 2008
Joel Then

If you have Jabber or GTalk, hit me up: lostskater@gmail.com

16 07 2008
Bajan Girl

“Seriously Joel…don’t be flattered just because some people who were bored at work decided to humor your dumb troll ass.

OMG EVERYONE; His girlfriend is probably ANNA!”

rotflmfao…

priceless…

16 07 2008

he is creole beauty’s brother….bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahha

Joel Renoulleau

tomato head just email mrs. epps, jdiva, or myself your story and we will post. For DSL

16 07 2008
Bailey Blues

@ Cheekie – “I think cover was calling out the ignorance of the already existing implication, not implying it. ”

I think the article did this. The cover, however, did not. This brings us back to the image being embedded in people’s minds and further developing these stereotypes. They aren’t reading the article…

16 07 2008
Monie

“hit me up” …Joel Then quit trying to sound like a brotha..lol..and exactly who would want to ‘hit you up’. Lol

16 07 2008
HeavenLeiBlu

I’m at work, so I don’t have time to read the discussion going on right now, and I [b]scanned[/b] it bottom up as opposed to top down, so excuse me, if I’m missing a point someone else may have already made. One, LMAO@ this Joel MFer pulling out the old ” you people”,

and @ Tomatohead, the REAL “most people” who find natural Black hair textures “frightening” “wierd”, “threatening” and all that other bullshit is none other than other Black folk, so lets all cut the crap. We’re holding ourselves back with that unreasonable fear, and it’s sad. My feeling on it is that if my hair is gonna be a problem and I have to “tame” it for the hours of the day that I have to fuck with a company/orgnaization; then they don’t want my Black ass there, period, and I won’t bother wasting my time They’ll find any other myriad of reasons to discriminate aside from hair. My hair has NEVER, ever been a problem for ANY entity that I’ve worked for. I wish people would stop using it as an excuse to not do what they want out of fear of somebody’s fucked up perception of it.

16 07 2008
TomatoHead

Thanks Ne 🙂

And Mrs. Epps: Bethany would be all up in Joel’s assimilated ass. As long as he hooked her up with unlimited chimichangas.

16 07 2008
Joel Then

@Monie: Since when is “Hit me up” brother-speak?

It really doesn’t matter who it is, I’m just trying to pass some time, until I get out of the office…

16 07 2008
Joel Then

LMAO @ unlimited chimichangas…

16 07 2008
Monie

It’s definatly not when you say it…lol..and maybe Somali Queen will hit you up. lol..

16 07 2008
Mrs.Epps

ROTFLLS(rolling on the floor lauhging like shit)@ Creole booty’s brother!!!

16 07 2008
Merri Lee

Jay (15:31:42) :

I am sure that either Obama drinks a beer maybe 2 or have ‘relations’ with his wife before every conference which is why he remains so calm and doesn’t let little things bother him.

He quit drinking years ago, but I’m telling that’s why Michelle’s hair is never together and why they keep looking at each other with those “I’m gettin that” eyes at their stump speeches. I don’t even want to know what goes on in that campaign bus. 😀

16 07 2008
TomatoHead

HeavenLeiBlu: Slow down there, all I said was that people who whine about their natural hair should do something about it at their work. I also said that only SOME work places are weirded out by it. I also said that if you wanna do natural hair, do natural hair.

My big sister is about to cut her hair off and wear it natural and I was like, sweetness because her hair texture really works for being “natural”. She wants it in a short fro which will be adorable.

I like natural hair on African American women. I never said I didn’t.

16 07 2008
Knatural

Obama doesn’t drink beer. He’s Muslim, remember.

16 07 2008
shabooty

t-minus 1.5 hours until blow job talk.

16 07 2008
Monie

As people have alluded to; Bob and Becky in West Virginia are not going to get thatthe cover is satire. They don’t even know what the word satiremeans. So al-in-all it (the cover) is just going to re-enforce what the ignorant people already think. So what was the point?

16 07 2008
Mrs.Epps

ahhaha@ Unlimited Chimichanges.. love ittttttt!!!

Joel foreal though, you must be an aspiring comedian thinking anyone would “hit you up” I would advise you to text your girl j-boogie bounce and shimmy your way to YahooGames and play some pool or what not.

16 07 2008
Jo

LOL @ Merri Lee. Gettin’ some is the reason the dap heard ’round the world happened in the first place.

16 07 2008
Esquire

Leave Joel alone, He is obviously a NEW reader, (not that there is anything wrong with that) But he was not around when we had these conversations before, nor does he know anyone’s cyber personality.

There is nothing wrong with dating outside of your race. I think most people on here got “offended” (as you can get on a computer) when you stereotyped ALL black and Latino women. You admitted your experience was limited, that being said you dont get the RIGHT to stereotype. If you date lots and lots of blacks and latinos, then make an assumption. Also, you sound like the pretentious type who only THINKS minority women are “hating on” and “giving you dirty looks.” Perhaps no one is even paying you any attention.

I dont know cause I dont personally know you, but I seriously doubt in 2008 that you are getting death stares everytime you go out. Question: is the woman who birthed you an angry black woman? (bet not) Are all of your female relatives angry? I doubt it. As a very very happy black woman, I often fuss at the black women for giving our men a hard time, I defend black men on here to no end sometimes, but c’mon. You are being ridiculous. You wonder why black/brown women give you attitudes.

If you have been dating your fiance for 6 years, you SHOULD have been out of the dating pool anyway. Point is…you SHOULDNT know what the hell its like to date a black/brown woman anyway.

16 07 2008
Joel Then

@Mrs. Epps: Why are you still addressing me? I thought you would get the hint by now that I’m not interested in talking to your ugly ass…. LMAO….

16 07 2008
Jo

oh, shabooty…

16 07 2008
Cheekie

LOST IT @ “his girlfriends is probably Anna”

DEAD @ “Hit me up” ….the AUDACITY of some people.

16 07 2008
Amadeo

I don’t care. Yes white people are still scared of black people in a general sense. While I do have locs…I can leave Barnes & Noble with a Mocha Latte and Andrew Dick’s Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, while wearing a pair of Dockers, Clarks (and not Wallabees either) and a cashmere and wool blazer and some white lady will STILL clutch her purse as I pass by.

Secondly, the same news media that made this a big deal were doing the same thing minus the satire. He went to a Madrassa (sp), Terrorist Fist bump, so on and so forth. They should just be quiet.

I’m more mad that they gave The Dark Knight a bad review and the content of sed review.

16 07 2008
Knatural

Mocha Latte? such an elitist…

16 07 2008
Esquire

Changing subject:

Is anyone else aware that the NAACP is going after the Confederate Flag in SC AGAIN? (Is this just a southern hot topic?) C’mon NAACP. They really piss me off. Can we please fight about something worthwhile… like education, police brutality, absent fathers, absent mothers too for that matter…

(I hate Bob Johnson)

16 07 2008
Muse

I’m mad that you asses missed my thoughtful critique of the New Yorker cover because of a fucking douchebag like Joel. Who cares about him.

16 07 2008
Jen

I am going to throw my two cents in about my experiences with natural hair around people.

I have never had anybody Black say anything negative about my natural hair to my face–not even elderly members of my family. When I go out with my little girl and we have matching hair Black people tend to stare at us blissfully and say things like, “You two are so beautiful!” When I’m by myself, I get a lot of thumbs up type of encouragement from Black people as if I am some kind of pioneer for the people.

Shifting gears…I HAVE had white people I WORKED with make comments to me about my hair when I started coming in without it straightened:

“What’s with the fro, Jen?”

“Are you trying to make some kind of statement?”

Etc. Based on these comments, I feel pretty certain that the WHITE MEN who have hired me would NOT have hired me if I had come in with a fro. The truth of the matter is that, frequently, a determining factor in whether or not a woman is hired is how attractive and likable she is to her interviewer. Indeed, I have NEVER been in a work environment wherein at least one of my superiors has not attempted to compliment me on my physical appearance.

Based on my experience, Jen with flowing, straight hair is likable and Jen with the afro is startling–someone who is trying to make a statement. I am the same damn person! I don’t talk to these people about race or politics. I can play Becky-next-girl with the best of them!

Hair makes a difference. It really does.

AS AN ASIDE and because I know this tangent is forthcoming, just because white men flirt with you or ask you out on dates more when you are befroed doesn’t mean that the afro won’t hurt you on job interviews. You are interacting with two different types of white men (typically) in two very different contexts.

16 07 2008
Merri Lee


Joel Then (16:32:46) :

@ Ayo: I read the SOHH article after one of my co-workers gave me a speech about how I shouldn’t see Hancock, I wish I had just kept my mouth shut about going to see the movie…. Also, I’m not saying that black people need to apologize for their hair, just be balanced about that shit. Honestly, just be a normal human being and shit will be all good….

And yes, my fiance is white, and I constantly get the evil look from both black and latin women who get upset because someone as intelligent and successful as myself didn’t stick with a sister or a mami… To that I say, STEP YOUR GAME UP LADIES…..

Is that a euphemism for “follow Michael Jackson’s example?”

16 07 2008
B4Prez

LOL…I was just about to say that Joel is probably Creole!

16 07 2008
Cheekie

@ Bailey Blues – “I think the article did this. The cover, however, did not. This brings us back to the image being embedded in people’s minds and further developing these stereotypes. They aren’t reading the article…”

Ya know, that’s probably true. However, I believe a huge chunk of the people that see that image as accurate are people who believed it in the first place. Who’ve always believed it and probably always will. So the cover probably didn’t affect those who’ve already set their beliefs in stone. It probably wasn’t exaggerated enough, but the flag burning in the fireplace solidified it as satire for me as the idea of Obama doing so is BEYOND ridiculous.

16 07 2008

lmaoo @ joel calling someone ugly… omg omg omg lmaooo rofl.

The nerve of the pot

16 07 2008
Joel Then

@Esquire: In all fairness, I think it’s just easy for people to get on my case because of the fact that I have some very specific and strong opinions….

I’m not mad at people making jokes, because it’s just the internet, and it’s just not that serious…

I have actually been stopped by both latin and black women (strangers, friends, family, colleagues) who have a clear issue with me dating a white girl.. I really could care less, but I do find it interesting that they always ask me why I’m with her, or why I’m not dating in my race. They always try to make comments about how I’m a traitor and other bullshit…..

16 07 2008
Merri Lee

@ ayo “WE KNOW HOW TO READ HERE. Grow some nuts.”

NOOOOOOOO!!!! You darkies are literate? *clutches pearls, passes out*

16 07 2008

(I hate Bob Johnson)

SHUT UP! I KNEW THAT WAS COMING

16 07 2008
TomatoHead

Amadeo, The New Yorker gave the Dark Knight a bad review? It has officially lost all credibility.

16 07 2008
Muse

Joel If I saw you on the street I wouldn’t give you a second glance. I don’t think most peopel give a flying flip about your and Becky’s relationship.

16 07 2008
Jen

ROTFL

Merri Lee is on the cut-up.

16 07 2008
Merri Lee


Monie (17:14:55) :

The worst thing I saw in a Will Smith film was in Independence Day. Vivica Fox played his girlfriend and she for some crazy reason was a STRIPPER?! WTF!

What was the point of her being a stripper? Couldn’t she have been a convenience store clerk if they wanted her to be a non-professional!

O-effing-sign Monie! That pissed me off so bad! Since being a stripper was in no way relevant to the plot – why did they bring it up? All that was relevant was that she was a mom, what she did for a living was irrelevant to the plot and didn’t have to be mentioned at all.

16 07 2008
Merri Lee

^^ that should be co-sign 😦

16 07 2008
B4Prez

@Esq –

The NAACP is too busy trying to continue their legacy of ignoring the problems of black America, while making sure that they continue being a country club for multi-generation black elite.

16 07 2008
Knatural

Muse – I caught your critique. Don’t feel bad, no one answered my question either 😦

16 07 2008
Mrs.Epps

I was giving you a suggestion you fucking twat. Your true colors are showing. Not a good look. Grow up, you and creole booty must be related since you both attack the last person who types your name so sad.. grow up sweetie, the 5th grade insults just make you look like a fool. ta-ta!

Amadeo-Mocha Latte sounds good right about now!!! I dont think white ppl are scared just intimidated. I hate white women who do that shit when a brotha walks down the street I had a friend that did that and she DATED Black men only! weird right? But yea she always thought that every black man wanted her and every black women hated her…smh the things society puts in ppl heads…so sad.

16 07 2008
Monie

Lol@Né

@Jen…I agree with you on; “Are you trying to make some kind of statement?”. It’s amazing that NOT spending hundreds of dollars a month on your hair means to some people that you are making a statement.

16 07 2008

90% of Black women don’t care if Raheem dates Anna!

I took that poll myself.

16 07 2008
Mrs.Epps

HAHHA Esquire since when has the NAACP actually cared about real issues.. didnt you know they work for the man??!!! i kid i kid dont kill me!!!

16 07 2008
Esquire

lol ne, you know it…everyday, all day!

@Joel…What region do you live in? Maybe that has something to do with it.

I personally have never had a problem with interracial dating. My mother is a product of a beautiful interracial marriage. I consider myself all black because Daddy is so chocolate. Anywho, when I see most young women now-a-days get offended, its because a man WONT date black women. There is a difference b/n loving a white woman because you love her and loving a white woman cause she’s white. Not saying you do that, but some men do. Those are the ones who piss a lot of modern black women off. Older black women just dont like tha shit.

Jen, people jumped all over my shit when I said certain natural hair does make a difference. If you want to be a professor, cool. But I have YET to see in SC an attorney with dreads, micros, or red hair. I have seen a sista with a short mini afro who did criminal. But no corporate attorneys that I am aware of. SC is a very small legal community. Its not fair, but thats just how it is.

16 07 2008
riz

Dayo Olopade at The Root argues that cartoonist just don’t know how to draw Obama (www.theroot.com- interesting article). The biracial thing throws them off– they can’t find a good stereotype to use. So maybe this reflects that idea.

In terms of the natural hair, well… that issue will simply never go away. Every Black woman has stories about their hair, and at this point, I don’t think any of us can say anything that’s never been said before.

I work in a very conservative industry. I started out wearing my hair natural. I was not getting interviews, so I changed the look to something more Caucasoid. I got a great position at a great firm. When I make partner (in a decade or so), I plan on wearing my hair natural again. Straight up. But I have to be in a position of power before I can do so. Once more of us are in those positions (i.e. *WE* are the ones who are hiring and firing), then maybe naps won’t be so scary to Others.

Or maybe it always will. I don’t know. I don’t care. They used to say that our lips were too big, then they started pumping collagen. They used to treasure their white porcelain skin, and now they spray tan. They used to say that our booties made us look fat, now they sell jeans with padding in the ass (Victorias’ Secret “Uplift” denim). People degrade what they can’t have.

The real problem is why we do our OWN people the worst. The person who told me that I needed to straighten my hair for job interviews was Black.

Go fig.

16 07 2008
Amadeo

NAACP – I will pay them attention when they change the colored part of their name.

I didn’t get painted or some shit. People get mad when someone calls them Nigger…I’d probably beat you worse for calling me colored. Like I can’t stand the name Aboriginee.

16 07 2008
Joel Then

@Esquire: Brooklyn born and raised…..

16 07 2008
Esquire

lol sorry they just piss me off. Now they Sons of Confederates are standing outside MYYYYY statehouse protesting.

ugh. Go away. It isnt at all necessary. I hate the flag just as much as the next person, but they at least took it off of the top of the statehouse. Let’s move on NAACP.

@Mrs Epps: IS Bob Johnson on the payroll at NAACP?…just asking.

16 07 2008
Jo

Muse: I read your response and agree whole-heartedly.

16 07 2008
Merri Lee

TomatoHead (17:21:58) :

The hair situation with black women has always been a contentious issue with me because I really feel that you ladies who wear your hair natural are just making life harder for yourselves, and then whining about it. If you wear your hair natural, great. Go ahead. Just know the consequences of your decision. You KNOW other people get weirded out when they see natural hair. You KNOW that a lot of corporate offices want you to not wear your hair natural. Stop getting pissed about it as it is probably never going to change.

If you want to make life harder for yourself, go ahead and do it. Just don’t bitch and complain every chance you get about how your personal choice is affecting your life.

I disagree NotBlonde.

/begin scene
Remember that episode of “Living Single” where Kyle knows he’s up for a promotion, and the only other black lawyer tells him he needs to cut his hair? Anyway, he goes into this loooong winded speech in front of his white supervisors talking about his culture, blah blah. Old white guy, “okay” and walks out. Kyle goes to black lawyer all confused, and black lawyer says that they never mentioned his hair. HE just thought it was a good idea. Kyle’s response “The sad part is, you believed that”
/end scene

My point – I wear a fro, braids or twists depending on my mood. ONLY black folks are like , “uh, you want to get ahead here, right?” White folks are always like, “your hair is so nice.” Yes, I get those random -how do you get it like that? comments, but I’m not offended. I’ve never been told my hair is a problem. I actually like it when white mamas talk me aside and ask how to do their mixed kids’ hair.

/end PnD dissertation.

16 07 2008
Merri Lee

^^PhD. I can’t spell today.

16 07 2008
Monie

@Merri Lee..Will Smith films are generally problematic when it comes to the Black women in the film.

16 07 2008
ayo

To me its just sad that black women have to EXPLAIN why they want natural hair. Its sad that the hair that grows out of your head is unacceptable or even offensive to many people or institutions. SAD -fing- SAD I say.

16 07 2008
B4Prez

@NAACP – You need more ppl…literally!

16 07 2008
Knatural

Jen – maybe it’s me, maybe the rapport I have with my coworkers, but no one says anything remotely negative about my nappy-ass hair. Though my office is pretty relaxed. I get the nods, and questions, from older Blacks, too. But I just don’t care. I NEED a chemical to straighten this stuff; flat irons and blow driers only stretch it out. Maybe I am making a statement: this is my hair damnit, judge me for it, and you’re an idiot.

16 07 2008
Mrs.Epps

HAHHAHA @Esquire, Bob Johnson is the one who writes the checks dammit!

16 07 2008
Esquire

Dang Joel,
well do you. And keep doing it. I am suprised that in SC, we dont look twice at the brothas with a white or asian girl, but in Brooklyn they do…The only people down here who may pop off at the mouth are the white elite. Even the trailor trash dont care anymore…just as long as the person you are dating isnt latino.

Trailor trash for some reason think they are better than latinos or “mexicans” (Y’all know they think everyone who is latino is mexican)

16 07 2008
Jen

AHHHHHHHHHH!!

Esquire! I don’t understand why there are not more Black female lawyers with locks. Practically speaking, if partners understood how much time their little tokens spent flat-ironing, relaxing, bumping and rolling that silky hair that makes white men feel so comfortable–time they COULD be billing hours at their sweatshops–they would provide bonuses to women who agreed to lock their hair!!

I want locks so damn bad. They seem so easy. But I think I’m going to have to be like Riz and wait til I’m years into my career to get them.

16 07 2008
Amadeo

Ya’ll have issues. Be a brother with locks. I hope to benefit by placing bets on a urinalysis if someone tries to suggest I blaze.

16 07 2008
Monie

“Y’all know they think everyone who is latino is mexican” -Esquire

Lol

16 07 2008
TomatoHead

Merri Lee: I qualified that statement i made somewhere back but to say it again: I didn’t mean every single solitary black woman with natural hair. I just meant those who complain about their hair when it comes to work/other people.

16 07 2008

@Esquire: Brooklyn born and raised….

I SO fucking understand now. Where in brooklyn sir?

My cousins are from flatbush and will not date MOST of the black women in brooklyn who have the ghetto flatbush state of minds. They do however, still date black women.

16 07 2008
TomatoHead

My mom says having locks is a pain in the ass as well because you have to get them twisted again every 4 weeks or so because they start looking ratty.

16 07 2008
Joel Then

It’s mostly internal conflict I receive, family, co-workers, etc…. The three strangers that have stopped me are just stupid…. I don’t really care though, it is what it is…

Also, I know what you mean about the Latino=Mexican thing… I was visiting family in Jacksonville, and while shopping some guy asked me directions someplace.. We laughed at some joke, and then he asked if I was Mexican… In my mind I was like “Wow, that’s random”…. I just said no and kept it moving….

16 07 2008
Merri Lee

BTW NotTomatoBlonde 😀 Since I was slow catching up to the comments, you had actually addressed that further down. I can’t wait til the IT people get here so I can…do some work.

16 07 2008
Joel Then

@Ne: Born in Bushwick, raised in Crown Heights, currently living in Brooklyn Heights….

16 07 2008
Esquire

ayo I agree: And for the flipside of that arugment, I think its sad that a lot blacks dont recognize that we have Native American and european ancestery running through some of our blood too. My hair comes out my scalp straight. I couldnt grow an afro if I tried. I think its unfair to label every black woman with straight hair or one who relaxes thier hair as wanting to be white. I havent seen an Egyptian with an afro yet.

MerriLee, I would respectfully disagree. Its not just blacks that are “uptight” about dreads, twists, etc. I HEAR it. They think its okay to say things like that to me because I dont wear my hair like that. But there are a lot of people who truly think you are dirty if you have dreads or that you are Shaquanticka from the projects if you have twists. And please dont let your hair be a different color. But then again, I live in the deeeeep traditional South. I wear black/blue/brown suits to work everyday and seersuckers in the summer, if I want to be daring! It MIGHT be just us. LOL

16 07 2008
Mrs.Epps

My mom would tell about how the men that she worked with would go boonkers over her braids and stuff. The white guys loved it always hit on her while the other black women their with their relaxed bumped under hair felt like she was the odd ball and needed to fit in and get her hair “did” lol. But the white ladies as well at her job would ask her so many questions about how she got her hair like that. They would make comments like ” OOOO your hair is so unique” ” I wish I could do my hair like that”.

16 07 2008
Monie

Crown Ht’s….OMG!..that explains even more than the pic…

16 07 2008
Mrs.Epps

“Also, I know what you mean about the Latino=Mexican thing… I was visiting family in Jacksonville, and while shopping some guy asked me directions someplace.. We laughed at some joke, and then he asked if I was Mexican… In my mind I was like “Wow, that’s random”…. I just said no and kept it moving….”

Dude hell freakin yea!!! Jax is sooo bad with that.. every white person down there asked me if i was Mexican and Black… UMM NOOOOOOOO!!!!! And they would do it offf the randomnesssssss. it was annoying as hell. I eventually just ignored it and acted like I couldnt speak english and talk shit about them in spanish while smiling.

16 07 2008
riz

Um, I was at the shop just yesterday and there was a parade of white girls in there getting “extensions” (no, they’re not called “weaves” when white girls do it, yes, I was in a Black beauty shop). So I started asking them the dumb questions that they used to ask me when I had braids and natural hair styles.

“How do you wash that?”

“How long will that last?”

“Can I touch it?”

Let me tell you, white girl extensions are much dirtier than any lock or braid because they literally can’t wash the top where they clip on. Hair is so thin that the hair just slips out. If they had naps, they would stay cleaner.

RE: straight hair wanting to be white… Meh. I’ve done every style under the sun. I don’t want to be white, I just want to have fun with my hair.

16 07 2008
HeavenLeiBlu

@TomatoHead ( sheesh it took me 4 damn times to spell it right, LOL) : I’d already given my disclaimer that I hadn’t read all the discussion at this point, but the specific quotes I was responding to were
“The hair situation with black women has always been a contentious issue with me because I really feel that you ladies who wear your hair natural are just making life harder for yourselves, and then whining about it. If you wear your hair natural, great. Go ahead. Just know the consequences of your decision. You KNOW other people get weirded out when they see natural hair. You KNOW that a lot of corporate offices want you to not wear your hair natural. Stop getting pissed about it as it is probably never going to change. ”

UNTRUE!!!!! And when it IS true, within a specific company, Fuck ’em, and keep stepping. Why would anyone want to be at the mercy of a company in which the idea strikes fear in you ( the general, you, of course)? They will discriminate against you in other ways, with hair being the absolute last thing on the agenda, trust.

Then there’s:”About natural hair: You ladies who wear your hair natural know that it isn’t socially acceptable in some work circles. Not all, but some. I highly doubt neat braids will get you fired but even I would give the side-eye to someone coming in with an afro because NO ONE wears an afro anymore. That was a style thing and represented revolution. Why you don’t understand this is a mystery to me. If you wear your hair in a short, neat fro, then no biggie. But if your hand disappears into your hair, then you are doing too much. ”

Again, untrue: About 6 years ago, when I interviewed at my last company, I made it a point ( because I wasn’t really serious about nabbing that job, I was just fishing) to waltz into the interview with a fro. not a teeney weeny one, either. Think N’Dambi (Google her if you’re unfamiliar). Just for the shits and giggles I imagined I’d get from the response. Note that I said my last company. I was hired on the spot, and the only reason I’m no longer there, is because I relocated. PLENTY people still waer there hair this way, and I won’t even bother guessing their reasons for doing so but what I doow is that they ain’t all bohos, hippies and artists, because a few of them are working within my organization, and nobody bats an eye, other than to compliment them. It bothers me that nobody says shit when some sisters walk around with what looks like a dead freaking cat on their heads, and otherwise jacked up weave/wigs, or those shellac’ed crunch curls, spiky extra mess, and ridiculously ornate updos that look out of place on a 9 to 5, but it becomes an issue when someone is ( or is considering) not straightening their hair. It is ALWAYS other Black folks hemming and hawing about it.

The point I was trying to make, and want to emphasize is that it’s always us afraid of scaring these white folk when they ain’t even concerned about out hair. If you like perms, fine! My daughter’s hair looks like a Pantene commercial when she gets a blow out, and I have no problem with letting her get one now and then but I refuse to plant this stupid seed in her mind that wearing her hair the way it grows out of her head is going to limit where she can go and what she can do in life, because it simply isn’t true. I feel like adults should be free to do whatever they want with their hair, as long as it aint dirty, stinking, and it has been groomed.

And I’m sorry that it looks like I’m picking specifially at you, Tomato, but you’re the one who made the statement in this discussion. I just hear your POV constantly from other people places and it is off base, and I’m just tired.

*steps calmly off of soapbox and tries to go do some work*

16 07 2008
Amadeo

@ Tomatohead

People don’t have to go to a shop to get their hair twisted or even get someone else to do it. It’s just a growth industry cause someone realize you could make money doing locs in a shop.

I’ve had three sets and the first set was back when it wasn’t “cool”. People give me cards about thier shop and coming in for maintenance. Yeah…I’m going to pay you to do something I’ve been doing for years so you can expose my scalp and make me look like every other dude that comes to your shop. When people do their own locs it reflects their hair texture better. At shops it’s more uniform.

16 07 2008
puff

@ mrs epps – i think it’s guys full-stop. at home i get the side-eye from pretty much all the women for being natural. dudes on the other hand – one guy offered me money to bring my puff back after i got some cornrows done.

16 07 2008
TomatoHead

riz: white people ask dumb questions because they just don’t know better. Unless they asked those questions with an obviously bitchy tone, I think they are genuinely interested.

16 07 2008
Bajan Girl

I am one of 2 persons of colour in my office. ANYTIME I do anything to my hair (I grew my perm out and I am wearing braids right now) the first part of my day at work is spent explaining how I get it to be that way.

Here is what trips me out, no matter what I do with my hair the other colleagues (all Turkish) always compliment and move on. However the other colleague (Filipino) ALWAYS (and I do mean always) says “you should keep it straight, that would be more practical”

Practical for whom?

16 07 2008
Joel Then

I think I must be the only non-black person here who works in an all black office….

16 07 2008
Esquire

Amadeo
Why have you had so many sets? Just curious

If my hair could grown into an afro, I think it would be awesome. It would look more like Diana Ross’ attempt at a half ass afro. (not cute) So I take my straight hair and I work it. I do praise God I dont have the limpy straight hair (like Chili from TLC) My grandfather was Native American and it is rumored that his father was an immigrant from eastern europe. So I have (thank you Daddy) some thickness and wave to it.

I love women who go natural, but I dont hate the women who get relaxers at all. I think hair is hair. I DO hate the sista with the afro with blue contacts and getting fake nails talking about how “REAL” she is. THAT does irritate me slightly. I also hate the fake weave afros/ dreads…I dont get it…

16 07 2008
Monie

“white people ask dumb questions because they just don’t know better. Unless they asked those questions with an obviously bitchy tone, I think they are genuinely interested.” – TomatoHead

I don’t agree. I think common sense would prevent White people from asking some of the inane questions they ask. I really think that they just don’t give a fcuk and feel so entitled in their own minds that they feel as though others feelings don’t matter. They have a question and they are going to ask it. Anyone who is offended must be ‘too sensitive’.

16 07 2008
Esquire

I am one of four black attorneys at a firm with 150. Even our paralegals are caucasion.

16 07 2008
TomatoHead

“It bothers me that nobody says shit when some sisters walk around with what looks like a dead freaking cat on their heads, and otherwise jacked up weave/wigs, or those shellac’ed crunch curls, spiky extra mess, and ridiculously ornate updos that look out of place on a 9 to 5, but it becomes an issue when someone is ( or is considering) not straightening their hair. It is ALWAYS other Black folks hemming and hawing about it.”

I KNOW you did not just say that. People say HELLA shit about people and ghetto-looking weaves and any kind of gel-created mess mop on tops of women’s head. I DO NOT think a messed up looking weave or jacked up hairdo looks fine at the office where natural hair does not. And I SAID that I think natural hair looks great on African American women.

I also said that I was only referring to black women who complain about their natural hair at work and don’t do anything to change the policies at said work places.

16 07 2008
Mrs.Epps

Bajan-However the other colleague (Filipino) ALWAYS (and I do mean always) says “you should keep it straight, that would be more practical”

bwhahaha who the hell is she to tell you what is practical??! I think when women make statments like is because they are mad they got that bone straight, with no body or lift and curls fall when they walk to the bathroom. Gotta Love It!

16 07 2008
Bajan Girl

“I also hate the fake weave afros/ dreads…I dont get it…”

Ok I realise that I am naive/oblivious about many things, but there is such a thing as “weave afros and dreads”???

16 07 2008
Jen

TomatoHead: what do you expect these women to do? Get fired? I think “doing something” requires a lot more daring and flexibility than you are giving it credit for.

16 07 2008
TomatoHead

Monie: I know that some white people do it just because they think they are entitled and such. I guess i should always say “some” just to qualify what I mean. Some white people really are just genuinely interested in how black hair works. If you assume every single white person that asks you a question about your hair is doing it maliciously, then you need a serious reality check because not all white people are assholes. The vast majority are, sure, but not all.

16 07 2008
Esquire

AJ on 106 and Park had weave dreads. I have also seen the weave afros, twists, and dreads in hair magazines at my salon. Didnt Jill Scott get some hair added into hers?

16 07 2008
Bajan Girl

Thank you Mrs. Epps cause there is nothing practical about the ensuing drama that takes place when I decide to get my hair blown out and straightened. I hated the hot comb as a child, as an adult I recognise it as a tool of the devil.

16 07 2008
Monie

I really hate it when White people, mostly White men, wear Afro wigs to sporting events. They are basically saying that Black hair is a joke.

16 07 2008
TomatoHead

Jen: No I don’t expect those women to get fired. However, I do expect them to realize that if they are going into a field where natural hair is not socially acceptable to not constantly whine about it. That is all. They can take baby steps toward changing company policy.

16 07 2008
puff

@ bajan i didn’t know either until i came home last christmas and got asked by some random chick at the airport if my hair was a weave. as i’ve never had a weave in my life, i laughed so so hard in her face.

16 07 2008
TomatoHead

I’ve got to get to class, dammit.

16 07 2008
ayo

Erykah Badu had fake dreads. I almost cried when I found that out.

16 07 2008
TomatoHead

Before I go,

bajan girl: there was a girl on America’s Next Top Model who had a weave afro. It was the first time I’d ever heard of such a thing but apparently its quite popular because the last two times I’ve been to a salon I’ve seen at least 5 different women getting them.

16 07 2008
Jen

WTF? Am I the only person here who loves weaves?? I have had smaller fros, longer straight hair, longer braids, looser curls, tighter curls, darker hair and highlights thanks to weave. And I did it all without effing my shit up! In what world is variety without consequences a bad thing?

16 07 2008
puff

@ ayo whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? damn, erykah.

16 07 2008
Monie

TomatoHead,

After hundreds of years of White people being complete a**holes toward Black people you tell me I need a reality check!? If you want to be an apologist for the rude behavior of Whites, then so-be-it; I however live in the real world where White people are constantly doing rude things and saying rude things to Black people.

16 07 2008
Jen

Erykah’s hair ain’t never hung down past her shoulders, and it might never grow. You never know. But, at least she’s clever.

16 07 2008
Bajan Girl

Nothing wrong with weaves Jen, they came in handy for me as I was in the funky in between stage of growing out my perm. I am just mystified at an afro weave and weave dreads… anyone have a picture so I can get a frame of reference?

16 07 2008
HeavenLeiBlu

Tomoato, are you reading what I said? I never said that YOU didn’t think natural hair “looks” right. where are you getting that from?

And in my experience, people will jump on nappy hair WAY quicker than they will the hair”styles” I referenced above. Sure they will clown someone with them, and frequently it’s someone with some jacked shit on their own head talking down about someone with natural hair. It’s always easier to frown upon something that you’re not familiar with, and I find that this is what people I encounter do, and it’s ALWAYS someone with skin like mine talking that rah rah.

16 07 2008
Jo

@Jen: I think a line is crossed when someone with weave begins perpetrating/hating on people who wear their hair naturally.

I’m all for the variety and the fun in playing around with different looks. But please, PLEASE, don’t have a horsetail hanging from the back of your head and then look at me like I’m nuts ’cause I’m sporting a ‘fro.

To each his own, right? I know you feel me.

16 07 2008
Amadeo

@ Esquire

My hair grows fast. One of the reasons I initially stopped cutting it. The first set I cut when I turned 21…new phase of life.

The second set was down to my waist and I felt the urge to do it. Some ignorant bastard who once lived in my basement felt the urge to leave grease in a pan on the stove and when my tips accidentally dipped in that grease that pushed me over the edge.

The current set is newer and not even past my shoulders yet.

Having had hair it just doesn’t feel right or like me to keep a low cut. If I just don’t cut it…by now it would have to be tied up all the time or drag on the ground.

16 07 2008
puff

@ jen – i went natural when i was 17, before then my mother never let me get one and to be honest, the thought of wearing another human being’s hair scares me shitless. weaves look cute on other women, they’re great for switching up your look without making it a permanent thing, but they’re just not for me. i like my hair as is.

16 07 2008
Esquire

I aint knocking sistas with weave at all. I am knocking the women who claim its so great to be all natural and how you are a child of the devil if you get a relaxer, but then they go and stick weave in your hair…there is nothing natural about that. I thought natural was having and loving your own?

16 07 2008
16 07 2008
Monie

Jen,

I’ve never had a weave, but I’ve heard that they can damage your hair. For instance Naomi Cambell is going bald in the front of her scalp, I’ve read it’s becasue she’s been wearing weaves for so long. Is that true, that you know of?

16 07 2008
ayo

Puff. I know.
That is supposidly why she cut them off to the baldie she rocked for a min. Ppl kept calling her fake. My friend in Dallas goes to one of her hair stylists and she got some fake dreads too. I guess they call them ‘starter dreads’.

16 07 2008
Irami

“I dont have the limpy straight hair (like Chili from TLC)”

I’ll always have a place in my heart for Chili from TLC.

16 07 2008
Esquire

oh wow!!! Did you get burned? Thats scary.

16 07 2008
HeavenLeiBlu

Jen, ain’t nothing wrong with weaves. Hell, I was the queen of weave, even with natural hair. Hell I’d rock a wig too, but it’s to damn hot. I just can’t stand when people don’t bother getting good quality hair in order to get either of them done. It’s a waste of money, time and effort to instal some cheap ass hair that’ll be ratty before you know it. And for goodness sake, make sure the texture looks realistic. I keep seeing chicks with these lace fronts ( which look stupid on the everyday person, I’m sorry) with this barbie doll, too shiny hair, or cheap ratty hair looking crazy as hell. But a GOOD weave? Love it.

16 07 2008
Esquire

Naomi Campbell is going bald cause she’s a bitch from hell, not from the weaves…

I dont know that for real, just my theory

16 07 2008
Esquire

Is the lace where you are supposed to blend in your makeup in the front…Im going to get fired…damn 3 more hours to bill today

16 07 2008
Jen

Relaxers disturb me because they literally destroy your hair, are painful, penetrate your scalp and are at least harmful enough that it is recommended that you not relax your hair while pregnant. Weaves do and are none of the above.

And, I hold a special contempt for people who shop at farmers markets and use organic deodorant, but will relax their hair.

I guess I’m a different kind to think of things that way, though.

16 07 2008
Mrs.Epps

Bajan- girll yes.. the hot comb is the devil! I hated as a child! LMAOOO@ fake dreds and fros.. that shit is sooooooo funnnnnnyyyyyyyy…When I went to the beauty supply i saw them and never laughed harder! I cant believe ppl get those things.. WACK WACK WACKK…

OO i also hate the black women who ask me if my hair is a weave just because its not the “normal” length and texture of black girl hair.. WTFFF since when did every black woman have short ass nigga hair or weave weaves???? Did I miss something. My mom is puerto rican she has that wavy curly hair and real thick! and my Dad has that crazy thick african hair. I got the in between. I never wore a weave ever in my life, that shit is crazy. And when I do tell em that its all mine they flip out and be like damn you got that good hair you got indian in your family?! hahahahah

BTW what the hell is good hair?

16 07 2008
Knatural

Fake locs? seems…wrong.

16 07 2008
Jo

@Jen

Lol @ “Black Barbie”

16 07 2008
B4Prez

@tomato:

I’d have to agree with you in that most white ppl are simply ignorant. The only black ppl so many of them ‘know’ are Will Smith, Oprah, the guy with the ‘wanted’ sign under his mugshot on the news, and that annoying azz black dude in the office who obviously hasn’t seen a mirror in a month of Sundays…and he’ll be too busy trying to act like he doesn’t know the answers to their questions so that he won’t be bannished and forced to face his blackness.

This is why black ppl always feel like they have to represent the entire race everytime they are out in public.

Too bad blacks don’t support each other; that way it wouldn’t matter so much what YTs think. But as long as we’re dependent/cooning/hoping they will randomly forget that we’re black….. I guess we’ll continue going to work pressed to get Mr. Birnbaum to realize that the 1 black person he knows (me) has nothing in common with Flavor Flav.

16 07 2008
puff

@ ayo – i guess she got a fake afro too, so i probably shouldn’t be that surprised. loves that chick though, i actually think she looked hawt bald.

16 07 2008
Monie

Lol@Esquire

16 07 2008
HeavenLeiBlu

Oh, BTW I think fake locs are the stupidest looking shit ever, and it’s obvious most of the time. I don’t understand the pont, either. I always laughed Angie Stone’s lil weaves because she had so many people fooled, LMAO

16 07 2008
Knatural

Oh. Like I said previously (in another post): Relaxers are Drano, same chemical composition.

Crap…we’ve hijacked the site again, babbling about woman stuff. Crap.

16 07 2008
Jen

Oh, and if you braid your hair too tightly, you can cause permanent hair loss. That is where the weaves-cause-hair loss thing comes from.

16 07 2008
Amadeo

It wasn’t hot grease…it was just nasty. Plus, locks are like sponges takes mine forever to dry when I wash them. So having already thought of cutting them off…that pushed me over the edge.

I still want to punch that asshole.

16 07 2008
Mrs.Epps

Eryka had fake dreds?? say it aint so!!!

16 07 2008
puff

@ esquire ahahaahahahaahaa damn what really is good with na-na and that hairline though? shit has me all kinds of confused. maybe one of her maids tried to fight back and pulled off the weave and took off her hair or something

16 07 2008
nelowafer

Me too and fuck anyone that ululates at a Braves game.

you guys are taking me back to my childhood in beckyville. The questions that yts are offensive, funny and questionable.

16 07 2008
B4Prez

I’ll take Chili with limp hair, a fro, a Sheneneh weave, a fade, a blonde wig, a lace front, a cotton front, a wool front, a velvet front….

16 07 2008
nelowafer

@Knatural

We should have a site. “Shit black women hate”.

16 07 2008
ayo

Puff did you see Dave Chappelle Block Party when her Afro wig flew off and she kept right on flowing? Loves that chick. She is free. Too bad shes catching all that flack bout having baby #3 by baby daddy #3.

16 07 2008
Mrs.Epps

B4Prez-I’ll take Chili with limp hair, a fro, a Sheneneh weave, a fade, a blonde wig, a lace front, a cotton front, a wool front, a velvet front….

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

velvet front haha

16 07 2008
Knatural

Baby #3 by baby daddy #3?
Wikipedia-ing.

16 07 2008
Monie

Thanks@Jen

16 07 2008
ayo

Jay Electronica. She went off on okayplayer.com. Ppl were calling her all types of stupid.

16 07 2008
Jen

Erykah Badu and Angelina Jolie are my female soul mates.

16 07 2008
ayo

and has anyone ever seen pictures of Lauryn Hills 38 kids by Rohan???? Please send me a link.

16 07 2008
mchuge.net seriously? » Anchors Aweigh On That Magazine Cover

[…] hmm, 3 days of fallout from the New Yorker cover, Dowd today uses the opportunity to yet again call Obama an elitist for not having the required […]

16 07 2008
HeavenLeiBlu

@Esquire, yep that’s exactly what lace fronts are. Half the time, Beyonce’s and Tyra’s unit ain’t on right, and they pay thousands, so I don’t know why Keisha an nem from around the way think their will look “normal” when they got it from Bay-Bay’s Bump and Curl. The shit looks stupid, if you’re walking down the street. They’re meant for THEATER and photoshoots where they’ll then be photoshopped, dammit. there’s this low budget commercial for this place that specializes in lace fronts here in the ATL metro area. I simultaneously laugh and cry everytime I see it. I wish I could remember the name of it, because I’d post the link to the site here. The commercial is on their lil cheap website, too. So much unintentional comedy.

16 07 2008
Amadeo

Man…Baby daddy’s shouldn’t matter if you got cake.

How can I justify that?

Woody Allen and Soon Yi

nuff said…

16 07 2008
Monie

Tyra Banks looks a mess pretty much all the time in her weaves. They are so cartoonish.

16 07 2008
Bajan Girl

I have been eternally traumatised and forever scared (literally and figuratively) due to hot combs…

Yes what is “good hair”

I think I have good hair. It is healthy and I can work many styles with it, therefore it is “good hair”. According to my younger sister I have “deceptively nappy hair” which is to say that if you look at my hair right after it gets washed you would think I would have to go through about 5 or so combs before I could get it all sorted out, but in reality it is really thick but soft and easy to comb.

16 07 2008
puff

@ ayo – lol yes i remember that i LOVED it. chick really is a bad bitch. yeah people need to leave her be – i love how she laid into people on her myspace on that point though.

16 07 2008
Esquire

lol There is a site about stuff black women hate. I think it sux.

Naomi Campbell is mean for no reason and makes black women look like fucking looney divas. At least she’s not dating Bob Johnson

16 07 2008
Esquire

Bay-Bay’s Bump and Curl

DEAD. Im going to go bill

16 07 2008
Mrs. Kennedy

Jen – I heart weaves, too. . .
I have have literally EVERY hair style possible, with the exception of changing my natural hair color (but I’ve work different colored weaves/pieces). I wear wigs, ponytails, afro puffs, you name it and you can bet it sits on a mannequin head in my hair closet.
I don’t view my hair as a symbol of my culture, a proud badge of my ethnic heritage. I view it as an accessory, very much like my ghetto hoops and bangles, and therefore hold no real attachment to it. . .

16 07 2008

“At least she’s not dating Bob Johnson”

I hate you!

16 07 2008
Jo

@Mrs. Kennedy: Dead at “hair closet”

and to think…other women have shoe closets…

16 07 2008
Landon

hey Everyone:

I am going to have to defend Joel: In reality we look at the afro as symbol of our culture, but at the same time a young person can argue Corn Rolls are part of their culture. But we all know damn well we can not roll in to an interview with cornrolls or baggy pants or a do-rag. If the Afro is short an maintained it will not stop them from getting a job. It is no different then an Italian male will not come to an interview w/ Guido Fro or “general white banker rocking a mohowk or a mullet.

We have to realize in certain corporate cultures there is a dress code and appearance’s code. By your argument of the the AFRO i could make the same argument of no facial hair policy at Banks. As a black man we are more prone to have razor bumps from shaving and by requiring me to shave all facial hair is compromising my health. (THEY WOULD NOT CARE) its their culture. It is wrong to ask a woman to perm her hair but keeping it in style and clean is not over the top. My BFF lil sister has an AFRO and i look at her like GET a FUCKING SHAPE UP!

2. Chris is right- NEW YORKER IS NOT READ BY THOSE WHO HAVE THOSE IGNORANT VIEWS… IF the news outlets didnt put the magazine cover on the news they would have never seen it. Now those ignorant bastards who don’t know about the new yorkers history and satire background will run with it. the new yorker did it to jump sales. controversy brings money in the publishing business.

16 07 2008

I condition and flat Iron my hair every weekend. I no longer like to wear my hair curly It was cute when I was younger.

I don’t like weaves because I don’t let people touch my hair (thanks grandma and her “root” superstitions). Plus they take too long to put them in and I don’t that much patience. Then you have to take them out!!!!! another 14 hours.

No braids or weaves for me. IT TAKES TOO LONG!

16 07 2008
Mrs.Epps

Mrs. Kennedy-I wear wigs, ponytails, afro puffs, you name it and you can bet it sits on a mannequin head in my hair closet.

OMGGG that’s my grandma right there this woman has a mannequin head for all her wigs and actually built this shelf in her closet for her wigs haha. I miss my grandma’s fro, she would work that bad boy like it was 1974 rocking her suits and pumps!

16 07 2008
Esquire

What is a Corn Roll? I know what Cornrows are.

Im just messing with you Landon.

BTW: Can someone please tell me what happened on the Facebook page? Im not on Facebook

16 07 2008
Jen

Cornrows, Landon.

And, yes, I am sure a woman can get some kind of job with a short, maintained afro. But you are living in a world of delusion if you think it couldn’t hurt her.

16 07 2008
Knatural

Corn Roll? AAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAH

Irregardless!

16 07 2008

In addition to the weaves, tasha mack on the tv show “The Game” ALWAYS has a nice looking weave.

16 07 2008
Jen

After Chaotic Diva discovered and made public knowledge that Single Yellow Creole’s photos were stolen from some b-list model that used to date Usher, Creole made up random rumors about Diva and people on her friends list and put about 50 posts to this effect up on the SBPH page’s wall.

16 07 2008

Irregardless!

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

let’s conversate lata!

16 07 2008
Esquire

Landon, I just read what you wrote. ITs a nice argument, but unrealistic. Especially your clean shaven argument. I dont see Men in the bush running around with wild beards and a bunch of hair on thier face. Clean shaven faces are our culture too. And if razor bumps affect your health, you are the boy in the bubble. Use MAGIC SHAVING POWDER. Its what I make hubby use. Its like Nair for men. It eliminates all bumps.

Shave. Period. Unless you are a hippie you will not be up in corporate America with your construction biz lookin like a Geico caveman.

16 07 2008
ayo

Gabrielle Union, Sanaa Lathan, the Simmons girls, and Lauryn London always have great weaves.

16 07 2008
Landon

Monie:

usually when white people where afro wigs – its prob to repersent something from the 70’s even white people had afros back then. IF you walk into a costume store they dont have blond or red afros (red hair = clown)… black is usually the only option.

now if they put on black face with the afro you have a point – but that is just too far.

in general:
Sometimes a spade is a spade.
Joel had some personal bad experiences with black women & latina women he dated. Sometimes there is a cultural difference, its natural. I disagree with his latina example because in my experience they are very accommodating. my experience with black women is do diverse i couldnt blanket them in a statement because i would have to further sub-divide the grouping. Region, back ground, education, religious beliefs. there are a lot of factors.

Joel Qualified his statement when he stated its in his own experience. Maybe the black girl he dated was a crazy bitch (quite possible), maybe the latina girl was very dominating or maybe Joel is soft like carvel ice cream. but dont call the man a racist when he is being honest from his own experience.

16 07 2008

or goat boy!

16 07 2008

landon honey,

Joel is 22, he has been in a relationship for 6 years to this white chick. That means he was younger than 16 yrs. What experience could he possibly have?

16 07 2008
Yonnie3k

Just skimming the comments now, but saw this by Rev Leon: Or what if Morgan Freeman played the PR guy to rehabilitate [random white actor]’s image? Would there be a problem with that?

They’d call Morgan Freeman The Magical Negro.

Black people 99 problems, but Hancock ain’t one.

16 07 2008
Rev Leon Lonnie Luv

Didn’t Shemar Moore have a damn weave of dreads when he was in “Tyler Perry’s Diary of a Mad Black Woman”? They were fuzzy and busted as hell.

Speaking of Sister Tyler Perry, and fucked up wigs and toupees:

I was wondering what happened to my neighbors dog. It’s resting on top of TP’s head in this new movie…

16 07 2008
Landon

Esquire:
African American men have long fancied facial hair. (Here in NY if i see a clean shaven black man) 9 times out of 10 he’s a banker.
Speaking as a BLACK MAN, it is very inconvenient for us to shave. Just like afros are worn because people dont want to put chemicals in there hair and be natural.

Shaving is very detrimental to our skin.. Black men with bad skin is 9 times out of 10 related to shaving. Our hair is (nappy) so when we shave it, it curls back under the skin… NOT SEXY! Its a

16 07 2008
Jen

I would also like to say that I love well-groomed facial hair on men: goatees, low beards, etc. Blair Underwood used to have a very low beard and I thought it was the sexiest thing on the planet.

16 07 2008
N.S

I’m glad someone finally told the truth about this. I’m a liberal, but other liberals are pissing me off by making such a big deal out of a satirical cartoon.

16 07 2008

If I based my judgement on the guys I had relationships with in high school, all black men would be crazy, psycho, house party stalkers.

16 07 2008
Landon

very limited but it is what it is!

16 07 2008
Cheekie

@Landon – “but dont call the man a racist when he is being honest from his own experience.”

But don’t racists usually speak honestly of their own experiences? Usually when someone makes a blanket racist statement, they cite their own experiences as “proof”.

16 07 2008
Jen

@Yonnie – no, he’d be the Wise Old Negro.

16 07 2008
Amadeo

@ Esquire

Tried Magic Shave…it burned and scarred me. I only trim down now…no shaving. Bumps and ingrown hairs are not sexy.

My skin is soft as a baby’s ass though.

16 07 2008
Mrs.Epps

why do ppl call them Corn Rolls?? WTFFF itgs Corn ROW ROW its a Row od braids not a Roll of briads hahahahhahahahahahha ooo what irks me is a grown ass man with cornrows..agh..let that teenage shit go please your not 21 anymore. Lastnight i was talking to my man and he told me that when he gets older he’s gonna start wearing du-rags again..

Me at this moment: Opens the door and look around.
Me: am I getting punk’d? hahahah Ashton get you ass out here so i can beat your ass!
Him: Shut up!

I was laughing for the next 30 minutes after his comment. You are too old for that du-rag shit! STOP IT if you start to go bald cut all your hair.

16 07 2008
Landon

and you would be right NE based on that sample… you can not fault someone on that! Its his experience.

i like vanilla Milk Shakes i think its the best Flavor every… even though i have only tried 5 other flavors… there might be something better but until then i am voting for Vanilla.

we was not stating a fact he was stating his experience.

16 07 2008

Joel and his blanket statement is so old we need a new word for old.

16 07 2008
Yonnie3k

I’m going to incorporate “set horse” into my vocab from now on. Thank you Bajan.

Knatural, what about Glamour mag and an afro?

16 07 2008
Jo

Jen: Blair Underwood is the sexiest thing on the planet.

16 07 2008
Knatural

Landon – here’s the difference to me: maintaining a clean, kempt appearance is possible with natural hair and unstraightened Black hair isn’t akin to having a mohawk or mullet, or beard. It’s not about looking presentable at work, it’s about looking Black at work. It’s about my Blackness being a problem. If that sounds extreme, so what. I get tired of my aesthetic, my look, being overlooked or deemed unacceptable, or deemed ugly. When that just isn’t true. And I’m not even that ‘militant’. I’m pretty comfortable with routine and conformity…

16 07 2008
Cheekie

Re: Hancock is racist

Has anyone heard people saying it’s racist because of the name itself. Like, “Why the Black man’s name gotta be Han-cock?”. Because, that’s where my mind went amongst all the “Hancock is racist” talk. But, of course I wasn’t serious. I’m just goofy as hell.

Just wondering if someone went there seriously…just ‘cuz I need a good laugh.

16 07 2008
Esquire

Really amadeo?

hmmm…I like beards and goatees but you HAVE TO BE NEAT!!!

16 07 2008
Landon

Racists complete blanket and give no a chance and often their reason and rationale was passed down to them from some one else.

Joel is smart enough to realize that there are black women out there that he might like… but right now he is in a successful relationship…

he is no more wrong then yall ladies calling white women hoes WHO SUCK DICK LIKE ITS OXYGEN. Your guys assumptions are just as big because how many of you have seen white girls giving a black man head in person, (well maybe mrs epps has) but who else… or is it relayed information from guys stories!!! heres a note ladies MEN EMBELLISH like the BUSH REGIME did on iraq and WMDs…

16 07 2008
tilshiloh

First time poster – everyday reader: greetings everyone.

I’m enjoying this dialogue because in my other country (somewhere in West Africa where we are supposed to be politically immature and third in world status), such political humor is generally accepted but I have been exposed to the opposite here (Land of the free..home of the offeded).
To the poster who made a comment about our (black people) fear of anything that is natural to us: try growing your natty locks or an afro in a middle class West African family…just try!!!!!!

16 07 2008

Everytime I have tried a strawberry milkshake I got a sinus infection.

last year I found out I am allergic to strawberries.

16 07 2008
Mrs.Epps

Rev- Shemare Moore had these prison bitch braids in Diary of a mad black woman….WHY WHY WHYYYYYY

16 07 2008
Landon

i have home girls who rock small afros to work… or natural… but you have to make it clean… esp if you are in front of the customers…

its not different when i open my bar / restaurant all the women in my bar will be attractive… (BY MY STANDARDS) No flat asses allowed (does that make me a racist towards white women, not really – but for a white girl to work in my resturant she needs to have BODY) fucking sue me…

We relate afro and our culture… that is the issue at hand.. when someone attacks ann afro (white women can have afros and some have natural hair that needs to be permed)… but we are not defending them…

a slight at the afro is a not necessary a slight to us…

I cant grow a mullet, and if i could i would not be able to wear to work.

16 07 2008
Cheekie

Dying @ corn rolls. I used to pronounce it that way for the LONGEST. Probably because that’s how it sounded when people said it to me. You shoulda SEEN the expression on my face when I found out how to actually spell it.

16 07 2008
Yonnie3k

Joel Then is a bit of an asshole, isn’t he?

back to reading the comments…

16 07 2008

YEA! why did he have those nasty matted braids?

16 07 2008
ayo

Rev… They were braid corn ROLL extensions. hehehehehehe.

16 07 2008

MULLET LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

16 07 2008
Mrs.Epps

i hate the messy taco meat look that Anthony Hamilton was rocking… not cute but i love facial hair on men its HOTT…

16 07 2008
Cheekie

“Rev- Shemare Moore had these prison bitch braids in Diary of a mad black woman….WHY WHY WHYYYYYY”

LOL!!! WTF was UP with that? It looked like they Microsoft cut-and-paste those braids on his head. Those COULDN’T have been real. Was that shit real life?

16 07 2008
Jen

Landon – I GUARANTEE YOU that 99% of the Black women you see with Afros wash their hair more often than 99% of the Black women you see with straightened hair. This is a definitive truth due to the nature of the styles. Afros need water. Water is kryptonite to relaxed/flat ironed hair. It isn’t about “clean” it is about looking BLACK. An afro is not a mullet. An afro is what most Black women’s evenly-trimmed, shoulder-length hair would look like less heat and chemicals.

An affront to the afro is an affront to your BLACK ass. Period.

16 07 2008
Amadeo

@ Esquire

Everything people tell black men to try has normally been worse or just as bad as shaving for me. I will never shave again.

@ All

Here’s a thought. People have talked about ladies and natural hair, but no one seems to pay much attention to the fact that if a black man has anything beyond a buzz cut (unless his hair is curly then it’s cool to have enough to form the curl) then he’s looked at as unprofessional and told he needs a cut. I have had issues having locs…I told people to go to hell and see if you can replace me. But how come when a brother has even an inch of hair (pretty sure for other races of men) it’s not appropriate for work? I normally see black women telling dudes they need to get their hair cut as well.

It all remains funny to me cause when I first started my locs (’95) people told me I would NEVER get a job.

16 07 2008
Jen

Cheekie – I ALMOST TEETEED ON MYSELF AT THE MICROSOFT COMMENT!!

It was a wig! It looked like that because it was a wig. lol

16 07 2008
Muse

I wear my hair straight and wash it about 3-4 times a week. I like water

16 07 2008
Jo

Weren’t they lace-front, too? Talk about adding insult to injury.

16 07 2008
Landon

JEn:

like i said a lot of my home girls rock Afros at work… Go to Africa not many AFROS!

its our urban culture that started in the 60/70s and ionic cultural symbol. it is something that only has 30/40 years of cultural representation…

If you come in to my office and i am running a financial firm your appearance going to matter i don’t care what color you are.

16 07 2008
Knatural

Amadeo – sorry for overlooking the Black man’s plight (you know how women are). I think it’s because they’re more ‘natural’ Black women here than locked Black men.

16 07 2008
Landon

Us rocking the HIGH ASS AFRO to work is no different then a WHITE BOY COMING TO WORK WITH HIPPIE HAIR DOWN TO THE SHOULDERS OR PASSED look… NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

in fashion and certain industries you can rock your hair how ever you want.

AFRO STATEMENT OF THE TIMES (BLACK PEOPLE)

HIPPIE LOOK STATEMENT OF THE TIMES (WHITE PEOPLE)

even happened around the same time… white or black could not wear that look to most corporate jobs… now

16 07 2008
Cheekie

Jen – lol Oh okay, I figured. Those braids just made him a little “off” during that entire movie. Really big distraction.

16 07 2008
HeavenLeiBlu

1. Facial hair on men is soooo sexy. I agree though, that when it looks like Ant Hamilton’s, it’s not fly. He look like he ” go da MANGE” on his face. I hated those dreads Lyfe Jennings had in his beard, too, WTF.

2. Amadeo, how often do you see long haired men in corp. America PERIOD, though? I’m talking anything past their collar. Long hair on black men doesn’t bother me, unless as stated above, he’s a grown ass man w/cornrows. That just screams “jail” and “immature” to me, on a man. I LOVE seeing a locked man in his suit, handling biz though.

*fans self*

16 07 2008
Jen

P.S. YES!! Amadeo, AMEN. It floors me that Black men don’t realize that the reason that the mainstream Black hair cut is a millimeter of hair or less evenly over their head is that the world is still uncomfortable with our natural hair!!

Landon – Afros have existed in various cultures prior to the 60s. I have seen photographs of multiracial children in Europe in the 30s with afros.

16 07 2008
creativecat

Wasn’t there already a discussion on natural hair a few months ago? The only thing I have to add about hairstyles is this: NO MULLETS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Regarding the New Yorker cartoon, when I first saw it (as a thumbnail), I thought that Obama looked naked. The color of the robe is too close to the color of his skin. I’m not sure if that was the illustrator’s intention, but I had to find a full-size image to see that he wasn’t really naked.

16 07 2008
Mrs.Epps

Hmm good point Amadeo. But my man has natrually curly hair, and it looks cute when doesnt get his hair cut but the ppl at work just hate on him, They tell him before business trips(the black men in general) to get a hair cut before they get on the plane! Everytime he goes away on business he cuts his curls off. It makes me mad and his head look big hahah. I always ask him why he cuts his curls off and he tells me because its unproffesional. WTFF how does him having curly hair making him look unprofessional?!!!! Its his natrual hair. So I say Ok if your curly hair makes you look so unprofessional wouldnt your new tattoo on your forearm(which btw everyone can see every day because he wear shortsleeve shirts to work) make you look even more unprofessional. Is it just me or am i confused…

16 07 2008
Mrs.Epps

has anyone seena man with weave… a straight man!!!

16 07 2008
KG

Totally get and agree ( a little) with what you’re saying. But the phrase “Knee jerk” liberal strikes me as a compliment in this instance because before I read or wrote anything about the New Yorker, my response to this was incredibly visceral, just like alot of other things that Black people find offensive but whites are standing there with innocent smiles on their faces like, “what? I don’t get it.” Anger at this has nothing to do with being self-righteous, the question should be, is it really necessary? The only good thing I see coming out of this is Obama’s grace in handling this, not that he wouldn’t do it any other way.

16 07 2008
Mrs.Epps

“I LOVE seeing a locked man in his suit, handling biz though”

AMEN!!!! thats just hella sexy… one of my close friends just cut his dreds off.. sigh… i miss them.. not his head looks GIGANTIC!!!

16 07 2008
Amadeo

@ Knatural

You are forgiven. It just gets me cause whenever I see a non-black dude with what would be a “regular” cut on a black dude, people see that as unusual. When a black dude has anything but that low cut he’s unusual.

16 07 2008
Mrs.Epps

I love a man with dreds as long as they are kept clean and fresh. I use to knwo this dude and his dreds were long asss shit and a hot mess! he had short pieces in the front like they broke off and they were dirtyyyyyy i swear something was nesting in them joints hahah

16 07 2008
Amadeo

@ Heavenleiblu

I didn’t say long. But an inch of hair is treated alot differently when it’s a white/asian/indian/latino man vs. a black man. Before you get to that half inch people start telling the black dude to cut it.

16 07 2008
Landon

But the cultural significance of the afro was formed during the civil rights era!

16 07 2008
Knatural

Back to the topic: the more I look at the New Yorker cover, the funnier it gets. Those getups should definitely be the Obama’s Halloween costumes this year!

16 07 2008
Jo

@Knat–better yet, we should dress up as Michelle-Obama-as-depicted-by-the-New-Yorker.

16 07 2008
Bajan Girl

Random (and possibly dumb, but whatever) question:

is the afro mainly an American thing?

I am thinking back to the people in my family, what I saw in my childhood on the island and what I see when I go back home, and while a good majority of us [my family] even now wear our hair natural, I cannot truthfully say that I recall many people having what could be legitimately called an afro.

[for us, meaning my family, our natural look more resembles a jheri curl that didn’t quite come out right, but that is another story]

16 07 2008
HeavenLeiBlu

I hear you Amadeo; problem is, lots of the guys I know that finds themselves in that situation don’t even question it; so how can you win?

16 07 2008
Merri Lee

Joel Then (18:53:23) :

I think I must be the only non-black person here who works in an all black office….

BWAHAHAHAHA! He’s the secretary for “Boomerang”

16 07 2008
HeavenLeiBlu

Bajan: in short; for the most part, yes.

For your family though, an afro it might just be impossible for their hair textures to get what could be called a passable fro. I’ll admit it isn’t nor has it ever been the thing to do in my family, except for amonst the men. I am obviously the “Black sheep”

16 07 2008
Merri Lee

Esquire (19:15:33) :

Naomi Campbell is going bald cause she’s a bitch from hell, not from the weaves…

I dont know that for real, just my theory

Her hairline is like – “save meeeeeeeeee”

16 07 2008
Amadeo

Production.

I not only have locs but I keep my shades on all day. Know why? Too hard to replace me. I know too much and I get things done (not to mention that flourescent lights give me a headace), I’ve heard lot’s of things from lot’s of people, but at the end of the day they know if they want things done I can and will do them well. In addition to the fact they know if they send me somewhere to reperesent I will and I won’t cow tow to someone because of their position. Because of this I not only look how I want, but I crack random jokes all day long. It would seem bad for me if I need to change jobs…but the people who know…know I get it done. Those who don’t…would be hell to work for even if I looked and acted like they wanted me to…as for others I can’t say.

16 07 2008
Jen

The afro is not mainly an American thing.

Old ass photo of an Africa with an afro:

16 07 2008
Merri Lee

Knatural (19:24:00) :

Baby #3 by baby daddy #3?
Wikipedia-ing.

I love how “cute” Minnie Driver is, finally having a baby even though she won’t say who the daddy is. Tom Brady’s a distinguished gentleman. Shout out to Elizabeth Hurley.

/end rant

oh, you know what I mean

16 07 2008
ayo

So… in reaction to the Obama cover we knew there were going to be McCain covers right:

16 07 2008
riz

RE: Shemar Moore.

I met him in real life and his hair is simply tore up.
(No, I’m not trying to name drop. I moved from San Francisco to LA this past January and he’s the only celeb that I’ve met). He has this Fake Thug Look– he can’t decide if he’s trying to be pretty or trying to be hard. I don’t know who is stylist is, but clearly, there is just a problem.

That said, he’s still hella fine to me, so. . . [shrug].

As for Black people asking each other if they have a weave: There isn’t a “normal” length of Black women’s hair these days. Precisely because more people are going natural and putting less stress/ product on their hair, most of us have longer hair. I don’t think I know anyone who is “bald headed” in the stereotypical sense, no matter if they are wearing a press, weave, locs, etc. That’s just a silly assumption to make.

RE: Questions. YT people’s questions are just annoying to me. I think it does come from a sense of self-entitlement that they are the norm, and we are the “exotic others.” After YEARS (YEARS!) of questions, I feel that it’s no longer my job to educate and explain to them the process of my hair, or my food, or my background, to anyone. Maybe that’s because of race, maybe it’s because I’m selfish. Whatever. I don’t really care. We live in the Information Era, so if someone is really that curious, well, then, they can take that mess to a Google search.

By the way, I’m a new poster, and I guess that I should have introduced myself. So… Hi!

16 07 2008
puff

landon –

i’m not an african-american so the cultural reference is a bit lost on me, and i certainly do not wear my afro as a political statement, no matter how many people want to see it that way. i said on a previous post, i quit relaxing cos i’m a vain ass bitch, the relaxer i’d had forced on me since i was 3 was cutting my hair and i like the compliments i get from guys about my hair now that i never did when it was all long and wavy or whatever the fuck else a relaxer is supposed to look like. my hair is clean, healthy and well-maintained – more so than it was when i had a relaxer cos now i take care of it myself instead of leaving it in the hands of people who don’t know how to deal with it. just my $.02 on the subject.

@ tilshiloh – i feel you on being natural in a west african family – i get cursed out on the regular for having nappy hair 😦

16 07 2008

My head is hurting with all of this fro talk!

16 07 2008
puff

@ jen – that picture just made my day 🙂

16 07 2008

lol @ John “old geezer” McCain’s cover.

That pee paw looks like he needs an oxygen tank.

16 07 2008
puff

@ ayo ahahahahahahahahahaha that picture is hilarous… *dead* at “cuntry time” lmao

16 07 2008
Breez

I guess natural hair, like so many other things, is on a case by case basis. My fro is pretty huge, and yes, my hand can get lost in it. Yes, I’ve been known to break a comb a time or two. I’m a legal assistant at the oldest firm in the nation, and my hair has never been an issue. In addition to the managing partner personally requesting me when his assistant is out, I often work the front desk as well. I support 4 attorneys (including an almost 80 year old non-white gentleman), meaning there are four different personalities to please, yet each of them address my professionalism in both demeanor and appearance. In addition to the job that I have, I have also turned down employment offers and have an open offer to return to my firm back home.

I’m not so naive as to believe that there are NO establishments that would not be taken aback by my nappiness, however, I probably wouldn’t be happy working there anyway. A smart employer would look at the stability of my employment history, my skill set (including the fact that I type 100 wpm) and awesome ass personability, and give less than a damn that I decided not to burn the shit out of my scalp. To date, I have yet to be jobless.

16 07 2008
Breez

And “non-white gentleman” was supposed to be “non-black.”

16 07 2008
Landon

JEN:

READ MY TEXT – OF COURSE the AFRO GOES BACK TO JESUS AND BEFORE HIM! HELL JESUS PROB> HAD ONE!!!

the cultural interpretation of the afro in this country is with the revolutionary times of the civil rights movement — for crying out loud.

take avg white interviewer for a job his perception of the afro is Civil rights and DISCO
thats all i am saying… hippy white boy would get 60’s and NAM protester…

puff: you are proving my point, you don’t know or understand the cultural interpretation of a BIG AFRO – small ones really dont count. as long as the Afro is Short and well maintained you will not have an issue getting a job.

16 07 2008
puff

landon –

i guess i’m screwed, cos i’m planning on letting my hair get as big as it can get. all because some white folk are scared of people with big hair… what the fuck.

16 07 2008
Jen

Reading your comments backward, they make a lot more sense.

However, I am not sure how they address anything I’ve said. Any scary cultural associations white people have with the way my hair looks as it grows out of my head are unacceptable, and should be actively fought, not damn near co-signed, as you seem to be doing, here.

16 07 2008
Landon

if you see a black guy with dreads you make an assumption

a white guy with dreads even a bigger one

white guy with mo hawk… i have a feeling you would think twice in letting him watch your child…

going in for a pap (sp) smear not sure you want your doc rocking colored hair and corn rows.

in teh 70s my dad worked in an office with an afro – white guys wore long hair and facial hair. both black and white are not acceptable in certain marketplaces… My only point is BLACKS are not being singled out… ALL men are… because in certain fields we have to look a certain way.

16 07 2008
Yonnie3k

In the great words of my namesake, Andre 3000: Is ev’ry ni@@a with dreads for the cause? Is ev’ry ni@@a with golds for the fall? Naw. So don’t get caught up in appearances. It’s Outkast Aquemini another Black experience. Okay.

16 07 2008
Ethel

White people shouldn’t wear dreadlocks. [Specific reference to girl that appeared in show “What not to Wear” who had this 2lb hair snake on her head.]

Slight subject change:
White people shouldn’t scat either [music reference] because it never sounds anything but dumb, but maybe that’s just me.

One final comment: I thought Naomi Campbell was a bitch because she’s a model, not because of her skin color. Get her some food and I bet she’d stop throwing her phone–or at least less often.

16 07 2008
Jen

Colored hair is different from cornrows.

The truth of the matter is that I would prefer a doctor who had cornrows to one who has relaxed hair. My gyno actually does have natural hair. She wears it in a number of short, individual braids (not cornrows).

That said, Blacks ARE being singled out. I have no clue why you don’t “get” this.

A Black person, a white person, a non-black Latino and an Asian could all have the EXACT same length of hair, all trim their hair evenly, all keep their hair well-conditioned, trimmed and groomed, with none coloring their hair.

ONLY the Black person will EVER be said to be coming to work inappropriately.

This is patently wrong.

16 07 2008
Sister Toldja

I think Black men hate their hair as much as Black women. Back in the day, Black men used to conk and press their hair. Then they stopped (minus a detour in Jhericurlville) and “embraced” their natural hair texture. In reality, most of them just wear their hair so short you can’t even see it. We’ve allowed White people to define dreads and afros as “political” hairstyles. White men can wear 2-4 inches of hair in the office, no problem. Black man has 2-4 inches of hair, he is now Bobby Seale P. Newton X Shabazz.

I understand that we make certain consessions to “play the game”, but I personally cant let these devils make me change who I am. I can’t bend to the stupidity of White people. More often than not, my hair is in it’s natural texture. I will not shorten my Swahili-Arabic name to some European sounding nickname, nor will I hesitate to give my own children similar names.

16 07 2008
Sister Toldja

Landon, dreads on a Black man are not a political style any more. It’s a common style. And why wouldn’t I want a gyno (female) with cornrows? That’s a traditional African hairstyle. As long as these people are kempt, who’s bugging? With all respect due, it sounds like you have absorbed the same ideas about our image as White folks have. We are so brainwashed! You should see the way Black men react when I have on my long straight wig. Same ninjas who saw me the week prior with my natural lose they minds.

16 07 2008
SoCalGal420

Sister Toldja: I LOVE your posts; you should become a life coach! That said, I agree with what you’re saying about the reactions from BLACK men to us when our hair is straightened/extended, etc; have you experienced White guys telling you “wow, I LOVE your natural hair?”, somehow I find that equally annoying. 🙂 Why can’t we just wear our hair however we want without all the implications: natural hair=militant feminazi/probable dyke, long weave=video ho/chickenhead/sellout, relaxed hair=sell out, wannabe white, blahblahblah…where is “The Book of all things Officially ‘Black'” and did people born in the 80s not get a copy? 🙂 But like you, I LOVE my wigs; I wear them to perform only but all people’s reactions to me in them is funny, if a little irritating b/c of the gushing “you look sooooooo pretty!” fuck it…

16 07 2008
TomatoHead

Sister Toldja: Cornrows are a juvenile hairstyle. At least that is what it says to me. Adults who wear their hair like that look like they are trying to look like teens.

16 07 2008
MiracleMax

I agree, this was completely blown out of proportion. I am a yuppie liberal, but I am not a fucking dumbass who takes everything I see literally. I also found it hilarious, I especially love the flag burning in the fireplace, its the details that count. Sometimes I worry about all the god damn liberals crying worlf and being pansy-ass pussies. Extreme liberals are hurting themselves more then right wing nut jobs. I do think that The New Yorker should have known better then to put that picture up, because most liberal yuppies cant take a damn joke. Trust me, those “Other” americans that liberals say wont get it, are the ones that have never heard of it, or have even seen The New Yorker. Those liberal douchebags are the ones that are bringing this picture to those moron hicks. But those moron hicks probably have more to think about then a god damn picture on The New Yorker, they are worried about paying their bills and filling their non-hybrid car up with “Hitler Juice” (thats what I call gas).

16 07 2008
TomatoHead

Jen: Why would you prefer a gyno with cornrows to one with a relaxer? Is the gyno with cornrows inherently more educated about the female body?

You are doing the same thing people who have problems with natural hair are doing. You automatically assume stuff about them that may or may not be true. Sorry but it is really ignorant to say you’d prefer one gyno over another because of her choice of hairstyle.

And I just have to get this out there: Weaves, when done correctly, do not destroy your hair. Perms, when done correctly, do not burn your scalp, nor do they cause your hair to fall out. Weaves, like well done braids, actually allow your hair to grow out without being affected by normal hairstyling.

16 07 2008
willnotbetelevised

ugggg!!!!!!! i started to read the comments on this but I can’t fuck with you all today. I hate when trolls take over the board (ya papi thats you joel then) and recognizing them is like yelling into a black hole. B/C any response they are going to say you are the one who is crazy.

My Afro is too long to wear straight out. I have to tie it back at least a little bit, but it’s still an afro. Most of the time I get compliments, and i’m in a professional school where presentation is a serious concern. In the blah blah blah excuse that people have to be comfortable with you so you can look unusual. However I do know some people who get crazy when they see me, start gossip/rumors, have stupid expectations. Its irritating when they’re in a position to affect me but otherwise my thing is if this is the stupid shit you’re bringing, i don’t want to be associating with you anyway. Fuck off. If you wont accept me to your program b.c. I wore a headwrap to my interview I don’t need to be there. The stress of dealing with racists daily is too much and there are actually plenty of places that will accept me.

Also Patti in 1985 would be the better cook out but she got the diabeetus now so probably not as tasty. But I would still go there simply b.c. i think she has the time and money to fix a bangin meal that wont cause me to get instant diabeetus or a heart attack. Plus Aretha would probably sweat in my meal. You know big titties need deoderant and her jugs probably dip directly in the pots all the time. She probably tests the temperature of her mac and cheese with her left nipple. Not cute

16 07 2008
willnotbetelevised

TomatoHead, you used to be my girl. This is such a sad development. There are beautiful female styles of cornrows that look nice. Esp, the ancient African styles. And there are simple conrow styles that I think are acceptable on women. And yes you can lose your hand in my afro from time to time when its pulled back like an inch back from the forehead. Shoot when my hair is pulled up and I still got a puff on top of my head you can probably lose a hand. And I get complements from my seniors, and people, no one thinks it was unprofessional or dirty. At least it never affected me or got back to me. There are ways to wear hair, that are natural, and in those red-button styles that work out fine.

And the only reason i would prefer a gyn with cornrows would be the same way i feel a slight attraction to women with natural hair which is mostly to get styling tips and names of possible salons. Wouldn’t be related to their doctoring

16 07 2008
willnotbetelevised

Landon, you got me wanting to use part of my vacation week to come to harlem and yoke you up. Damn you are spouting some seriously brainwashed shit and not even recognizing it. I’m so amazed at how so often you do that and don’t recognize it.

And this has been swelling up from days ago. I know white people have been ‘successful’ in this world but so have other people (note: japanese) but just because they do something doesn’t mean its better!!!!!!! copying all their shit is not the only way to get ahead in life single nap peen.

Of course you will never see this comments since you only look during your ‘work’ hours. but i have hope that maybe it will fly out on the either and change your life. But then again I still have hope that Santa will bring me an easy bake oven one christmas.

16 07 2008
HeavenLeiBlu

WNBT: between “diabeetus” and titty temp testing, I don’t know what my cause of death is.

16 07 2008
TomatoHead

WNBT: Now I have to say this bit again and again and again.

I like natural hairstyles on african american women. I never said that I did not. I also said that I was only talking to African American women who complain about their hair causing trouble at work when they wear it natural without doing something about it i.e. talking to their boss about it, writing a formal letter to the head of the company, sueing, whatever.

There are such things as presentable cornrows it’s just that they look like a young persons hairstyle. I didn’t say that natural hair or hairstyles were dirty or unkempt.

16 07 2008
TomatoHead

“If you want to be an apologist for the rude behavior of Whites, then so-be-it; I however live in the real world where White people are constantly doing rude things and saying rude things to Black people.”

Monie, I am NOT being an apologist for white people. White people have fucked up so many peoples lives and so many groups of minorities for thousands of years and you think I wanna apologize for that bullshit? Hell no. I was just saying that you can’t jump down every white person’s throat for asking you an ignorant question about your hair because some of them just DON’T KNOW and are curious. And you wonder why white people think black people are hostile and shit. They can’t even ask a question about our hair and we get “offended”.

I had a girl in 6th grade tell me she had never seen so many “colored” people at one school in her life. I was like, what the fuck? But I asked her if she knew that saying “colored” wasn’t cool, and she looked at me like she had never even heard of this concept before. As it turned out, she was from some place in North Dakota that had a population of like, 400. They had no tv and local radio station. It was like they lived in the 50s. I guess my point is, and that was an extreme example, that SOME white people are truly just genuinely curious and you are making it hard for them to not be prejudiced against you if you are going to act like it’s a personal affront to you every time they ask a simple question.

16 07 2008
Merri Lee

Who wants to get mad? I PROMISE you Barack’s getting asked about this in the next 24hrs. yippee…

16 07 2008
Merri Lee

MiracleMax (22:20:36) :
ones that are bringing this picture to those moron hicks. But those moron hicks probably have more to think about then a god damn picture on The New Yorker, they are worried about paying their bills and filling their non-hybrid car up with “Hitler Juice” (thats what I call gas).

I am such a dork for getting that.

16 07 2008
TomatoHead

Merri Lee: LOL. I never ride with Hitler 🙂

16 07 2008
Merri Lee

/off topic – I was reading a Project Runway “Where Are They Now” story, and Michael Knight has a lingerie line named Kitty & Dick. Can the topic go south again? 😀

16 07 2008
riz

That link to Black people having a propensity for AIDS?

Wowwwwww….

Here comes all the biological deficiency claims. Now that we’re going to have a Black president, the whole “inferiority” argument is going to shift to genetics, since a Harvard education can’t change that… Also, it avoids all the racial-socio-political factors that really explain why Blacks are allowed to just die from this disease.

Oh, YT, what will you think of next?

17 07 2008
Jen

Jen: Why would you prefer a gyno with cornrows to one with a relaxer? Is the gyno with cornrows inherently more educated about the female body?

No, but I would go to a gyno with cornrows over one with a relaxer for the same reason I’d go to one who is Black over one who is white. I need her to do what she is doing and be successful at it so that my children and grandchildren can. I want my child[ren] to see people who look like them and have hair like them successful. I don’t want them to think that they have to be white or look like a white woman to have success. There is NOTHING ignorant about that.

It is ignorant to say that cornrows look childish–especially on a woman. They look childish to you because you are STILL not used to seeing adult women embrace the hair that God gave them. If anything, cornrows are one of the most low-maintenance and versatile style options for Black women: a relative to the ponytail, and something neat, non-distracting and professional-looking.

We need to start viewing our own hairstyles this way. It is imperative.

17 07 2008
Jen

P.S. I see nothing racist about the WP AIDS article.

17 07 2008
ViK

Merri Lee – Project Runway starts tonight! Can’t wait. And now he’s Mychael Knight. Kitty and…no.

17 07 2008
Knatural

PROJECT RUNWAY!

17 07 2008
Knatural

Crap. There’s a thick Liberian chick on Project Runway. PLEASE don’t be the “Black Bitch”, PLEASE!

17 07 2008
ViK

I missed the racism debate. Can I end it anyway?

17 07 2008
HeavenLeiBlu

“Perms, when done correctly, do not burn your scalp, nor do they cause your hair to fall out. ”

Now, think about this. The ingredients in relaxers, both lye and no-lye (save for thio based relaxers and Phytospecific’s relaxer, and lets be real, 90% of people who relax aren’t using either of those, and thio-based relaxers are caustic as well), are the very same thing as drain cleaners, save for some fillers to make it creamy, and may some aloe, herbs, or oils to psych you into thinking the product offers some type of nourishment during the process.

Whether used properly or not, when broken down the bare bones of the ingredient, would you want to put it on your head? I really think that if that idea was made that plain to people, they’d be more reluctant in putting it on their heads, properly or otherwise.

Now, before I get called out as a hypocrite, let me put this out there myself; I use depilating creams/foam from time to time-the same basic mix of a no-lye relaxer is ALSO the same set of ingredients used in most depliating creams (Nair, Veet, and for the fellas, check your Magic Shave container, cause it’s the same for you, too). A product that REMOVES hair. Again, taking the time to think about that, it makes even less sense to use a chemical relaxer to straighten your hair.

If that’s what you do, fine, but let’s not pretend that it’s a perfectly healthy thing to do. It is SAFER when used correctly and by a professional, but for SOME people, it DOES cause hair loss and damage, even when used correctly. In fact, the whole point of one is to break down the hair structure until it reaches the desired effect.

I mean, we could go around and aroound all day with this, but there are enough PubMed article that you can refer to on your own, since I’m (still) supposed to be working.

If someone chooses to do it, that’s them. I just know my own mother’s receding hairline isn’t from anything else but relaxers-correctly applied ones. But, like many other people, she chooses to continue anyway, despite her dermatologist’s protests. *shrug*

Again, I have nothing against straight hair, it just isn’t for me, if I have to put drano on my hair to achieve it, nor will be daughter be allowed to, until she’s grown and out of my house.

17 07 2008
HeavenLeiBlu

and fuck me for just writing a damn novella

*cries*

17 07 2008
willnotbetelevised

tomatohead, I didn’t accuse you of disliking natural styles. I know you’ve said that before. nor did i mean to even address people complaining about their hair choice specifically to you. I just got sidetracked into it when i wrote it. I’m not that chic, and I think that’s an aside, my thoughts were just supposed to be a PSA. What blocked our e-friendship was your thoughts on some natural styles which can be plenty professional. I’m not going so far as to call you or your ideas ignorant. But just not broadminded. Nobody wears old 70s style fros anymore like the jackson 5 (presurgery). But there are variations on this which are still fros that are professional. I actually like the natural curl fros that both men and women rock and the ‘messy’ fro (like in the staples commercial and on some models in ads). I sometimes rock it but it doesn’t quite look right on me. I have to pull it back some otherwise it just looks weird bordering on unkempt. Same thing with cornrows. That is a deeprooted black style and to say all of them make you look young is just something i dont agree with. Many of them do, and unfortunately the vast majority of people rocking cornrows are sporting styles for the youth. But when I do mine its not like that, and I just have to come up and shout that not all styles are like this b.c. i like wearing those styles and I always intervene when people say stuff like that b.c. thats why corporations/offices make blanket statements banning certain hairstyles like dreads, braids, etc. etc. When what they are really trying to do is give themselves footing for people with unkempt and truly unprofessional hairstyles (vast vast majority of white locs fall into this category but i did see one person with them that i didn’t mind once so once again, can’t block it). Guaranteed you are probably not in a position to make these decisions (unless chris grants hires you as a TSA agent for SBPH air) but I am on instalock when it comes up. B/C as you say, I want to wear my hair natural and if someone has a problem about it I’m not going to just complain about how it held me back but I’m going to stand up and do something.

Sadly enough, the only times I had to do anything related to my natural hairstyles, I’ve always had to reeducate a black woman… My people my people.

Note to all trolls: Just b.c. I’ve always fought black women about my hairstyles notice I did not stereotype all other black women as being self-hating creamy crackaddicts. Saved myself from incorrect extrapolation.

17 07 2008
TomatoHead

“But there are variations on this which are still fros that are professional”

Did I say that fros are never professional?

17 07 2008
HeavenLeiBlu

Chris, you and the New Yorker are breaking up e-friendships.

17 07 2008
TomatoHead

HeavenLeiBlue: I don’t think using a perm is a “perfectly healthy” thing to do. But I also don’t think that perms, as Jen said, “destroy your hair, and are painful.” They change the chemical composition of your hair in the “breaking down” process. If they literally “destroyed” your hair, no one would use them.

I have personally never had a problem with a relaxer and neither have my immediate family members. I’ve seen damage on other women’s hair but I usually chalk that up to misusing the product, too much heat styling, not enough conditioning, and generally man-handling one’s hair.

All women’s hair is different, so some women’s hair is gonna fall out. Your mother’s receding hairline could just be due to her having pattern baldness. Women go bald too, you know and it has nothing to do with perms.

17 07 2008
Sister Toldja

@ SoCal- Thank you! I’d love to be a life coach! I am way better at giving people inspiration and advice than I am at running my own show, sadly. But I will keep your suggestion in mind! 🙂

@ Tomato- Neat cornrows in a straight back or minimally ornate fashion in a natural color is not juvinile. Cornrows with pink and yellow beads and blue weave is. Back in the 70s, we saw women wearing cornrows all the time. What I find questionable is the fact that sisters will perm their hair to the point of destruction and think they look presentable with no hair on the sides, and then look at a sister with braids or a fro like she is crazy.

17 07 2008
TomatoHead

WNBT: Woman, I will give you photo examples of what I see as “professional” and “not professional”.

Professional:

Not Professional:


Professional:




Not Professional:

Generally not a good idea to go to work with hair looking like this:

Or this:

Or this:

17 07 2008
TomatoHead

I just did some extensive research on the cornrow subject (aka, I googled them) and I thought I just posted my findings and categories of what I believe to be professional and not professional…

17 07 2008
TomatoHead

I find it questionable as well, ST. I find it questionable that anyone would look at anyone crazy for their choice of hairstyle if it doesn’t look crazy.

Saying that someone won’t go a gyno because she has straightened hair is crazy. Saying that all women who perm their hair destroy it and make it fall out is grossly inaccurate (you didn’t say that ST, I’m just generalizing).
Saying that all women who have natural hair are dirty hippies is crazy.
Saying that people who have neat, well maintained fros are unprofessional is stupid.
Saying that people who have wild ass fros are unprofessional is true.
Saying that people with neat, minimally ornate cornrows in natural colors look juvenile is stupid.

I must admit that I found a variety of non-juvenile cornrow hairstyles for adult women on the computer. I’ve personally, in my life, never seen a black professional woman with cornrows. Including all of my Afro studies professors. They normally have Afros or locks or braids.

17 07 2008
klysha

@Sista Toldja I totally agree that most Americans are stupid. @ Tomato- I don’t know where you live but here in the DC area (at least among my collegues) natural hair is almost as common if not more common than relaxed hair. And the people with natural hair rarely complain about it. I haven’t yet freed myself from the damaging chemicals but I wish I had the nerve to do it. Now the story is totally different in my home town in Alabama. I’m sure they will look at me like I grew two heads if I came home with my long perm cut off and replaced by an afro. I for one don’t see anything unprofessional about an afro, locs, or braids as long as they are neat and well maintained.

17 07 2008
PreppyLiz

What a sad group of self hating Black woman. No wonder society doesn’t respect your race as a whole. Instead of pulling yourself together and mobilizing over significant issues, the Black women in this thread are bitching over a hair. It’s just hair! I’ve been a blonde, red head, and a brunette. It doesn’t matter! It’s just hair. Get it together! As long as your hair looks nice, what’s the big deal? I do have to admit that fros and dreads look really dirty to me but that’s just a personal preference.

17 07 2008
TomatoHead

PreppyLiz: Just STFU.

17 07 2008
PreppyLiz

Also Blacks in corporate american shouldn’t get special treatment. If a white person can’t come to work in nasty dread locks or their hair in a mohawk, neither should Black people. This black girl at my old job got upset because our boss told her to change her hair style which was reasonable. She had this huge afro and looked really unkempt and a weird smell use to come from her. Very disgusting.

17 07 2008
PreppyLiz

Tomato heah why so angry? I’m expressing my opinion like everyone else. I actually agree with you about Natural hair. I wouldn’t go to a OBGYN wearing cornrolls. Cornrolls are for thugs, teenagers, and the unemployed. Didn’t cornrolls start off as a tribal hairstyle in africa? Well this is america so I really don’t get it.

17 07 2008
TomatoHead

@klysha: I live in the Bay area. Most of the professional black women around here wear natural styles. I did not say they didn’t. At all. As a matter of fact I said I’d never seen them with cornrows. Not natural styles in general.

17 07 2008
PreppyLiz

Natural hairstyles on Black women are only cute if they have soft hair like Stacey Dash or Rachel True. No one wants to see a huge bush of pubes. Yuck.

17 07 2008
PreppyLiz

BTW Joel don’t let these angry Black girls get to you. All that matters is that you are happy. They are jealous because White girls is who they aspire to be but would never admit it.

Keeping it real one day at a time.

17 07 2008
HeavenLeiBlu

PreppyLiz; I say this with as much restraint possible. Eat a dick and die.

17 07 2008
TomatoHead

HeavenLeiBlue: I totally see your perspective on the perm issue. Just had to let you know that and my (future) kids damn sure aren’t getting perms until they get out of my house and decide for themselves because I really don’t want to mess up their (future) hair. They may do whatever they wish though…in the future 🙂

17 07 2008
akissy

@ tilshiloh “try growing your natty locks or an afro in a middle class West African family…just try!!!!!!”

So true! Every time I go back home, my aunts make comments about my hair and how it doesn’t look right and what are people going to say about the family and blah blah blah…. my mother has apparently just “given up” trying to reason me. Ahhhh african families 🙂

17 07 2008
Sister Toldja

Raise your hand if you care what some half-wit White woman thinks about Black hair!

………

Yeah, thought so. Peace out, Preppy Liz (who is probably Grimm AKA Creole Beauty AKA Genvieve AKA Somali Queen AKA at the very least 45% retarted)

17 07 2008
Sister Toldja

Tomato- If PreppyLiz is in fact a White woman and not one of the many insane folks who lurk here, her posts are a big “CASE IN POINT” in regards to how we have allowed White folks ignorant and stupid attitudes about OUR looks shape how we see us. It’s pretty well documented that perms, and more specifically long term use of them, damage the hair. Yes, there are women with somewhat healthy permed hair, just as there are women with naturals that lose their hair. But dig this- if a white woman merely washes and combs her hair regularly, she’s good to go. If a Black woman washes and combs her hair reguarly, but doesn’t “tame” it, she’s now unprofessional. Most of our hair doesn’t grow down, it grows out and up. I don’t see unprofessional when I see a woman with a big bush, if it’s clean and smelling nice. I don’t disregard women with straight hair, because I know freedom fighting sisters with everything from bald fades to dreads to long, silky weaves. Just as I have known self-hating bitches with killer naturals and braids. But I do admire a woman who embraces her own hair texture in spite of the many messages she has recieved from the media, the Whites and the Black community at large suggesting that she does otherwise. I’d like to see more women who wear straight hair at least make an effort to be versitile. Like, ditch the perm for a press and rock your natural texture once in a while.

17 07 2008
akissy

@ PreppyLiz – Your ignorance is funny! So yeah we’re in America, so what? All immigrants bring part of their culture with them wherever they go… that’s just human nature. We don’t need your approval to wear our hair in natural hairstyles… and just because I don’t agree with you or Joel does not make me an angry black female.

17 07 2008
TomatoHead

She’s an ignorant mess and if someone lets her bullshit affect how they feel about themselves and their hair, then they have problems beyond just hair.

17 07 2008
TomatoHead

And ST: I know you weren’t speaking to me directly about the letting my hair be natural for awhile but my natural texture is really weird. I’ve always had it in braids or straightened because my natural texture looks odd. It won’t fro and it won’t lay down. It isn’t curly and it isn’t straight. It’s oily as all get out so it kind half-heartedly falls down but is poofy at the same time. I don’t have those pretty, natural, tight ringlets that some black women have that I would have to get a straw set to have. I don’t have hair that is tight enough or beautifully curly enough to wear as a fro. My hairdresser tells me that my hair would be hard to “lock” because it’s so damn oily. I personally find that the easiest styles my hair can take are straightening and braids. As I have just cut my hair and want it to be short for awhile, I don’t want braids as they promote hair growth and if I left my hair natural it would be an unholy mess.

Women who can wear their hair natural and not look like bushwomen are extremely lucky I think. I dunno. I am so done with this.

17 07 2008
akissy

yeah I think the whole idea here is to have the hairstyle that YOU can manage. I can’t manage my hair when it’s relaxed, just can’t do it. Don’t know how to wrap it or use a curling iron well…
Be comfortable with who you are

17 07 2008
Jen

PreppyLiz smells like the Creole girl.

FYI: I never said I would never go to a gyno with relaxed hair. My gyno in Houston had straight hair. But, the last two gynos I have had rocked natural hair. I prefer to patron Black professionals with natural hair. Next in my order of preference are Black professionals; next, NAs and Latinos; next other people of color. I actively seek these people out in order to give them my business. I want my daughter to grow up seeing successful people who look like these.

Also, I did not say that all women who use relaxers lose their hair, although it is certainly true that the vast majority of women who use relaxers experience significant hair loss. I stand by my statement that using a relaxer destroys the hair. I don’t think this is debatable. The entire purpose of a relaxer is to deconstruct the hair. It destroys the natural chemical bonds in the hair and, by definition, weakens the hair, rendering it susceptible to further damage and breakage. As was aforementioned, the relaxer contains the same caustic chemicals as products meant to dissolve the hair. The chemicals are so strong, they are not meant to touch the scalp. Every single relaxer I’ve ever seen on the market clearly states this on its packaging. However, they clearly do, which is why significant traces of these caustic chemicals penetrate the scalps of Black women and why so many Black women seem to think the burns to one’s scalp these chemicals cause are a normal part of life. It goes without saying that women who relax their hair are voluntarily exposing their hair to significant trauma.

If people want to relax their hair, I just say “whatever.” I’ve relaxed my hair before. But, I don’t understand why people try to argue that, in doing so, they are doing anything other than irreversibly destroying their hair. To “destroy”means “to ruin the structure, organic existence, or condition of.” If this does not succinctly describe what happens to hair during the relaxing process, I don’t know what does.

17 07 2008
Muse

I’m so over these ignorant mother fucking e-troll/ e-haters using the internet to disrespect Black women. Black women are the truth and anyone who believes otherwise can kick rocks and eat shit.

Assholes.

Carry on.

Good discussion btw.

17 07 2008
Omar

I’m late but…

…there are two things wrong with the cover, one it fuels the fire, contrary to what people may think the people who believe the worst about Obama aren’t exactly in love with McCain either so those people may take it as reinforcement or a reminder of thigns they hate and forget that they are dirt poor and they would be better off with Obama. Two even though it kind of mocks the viewpoints that there images fit Barack and Michelle, it in a round about kind of way confirms that it is ok to think that Muslims, Natural black hair and customs that they aren’t used to (fist bump) are inherently bad or scary.

Hancock was not racist it was great, if I ad powers without the drinking I would be the same way; I would help people but I wouldn’t take shit from anybody and I would fight crime in jean shorts and sneakers. I find it hilarious that the white woman was his “kryptonite”, forget interracial couples, I thought that shit was about Kobe, OJ, Rosewood, Black Wallstreet and countless other black men and/or towns that have fallen at the hands of a white woman. Shit they could be throwing a hint at Barack Obama about who his running mate should NOT be…

And no I don’t care about interracial couples and their problems, the stress that white people feel when dating a black person merely comes from stepping into the world of black people soooo don’t complain because you asked for it. That is like dating an illegal immigrant and being made when ICE shows up. As for black men, many of them say they date white women because black women “Stress” them out too much because of that they are no longer allowed to complain about relationship stress.

17 07 2008
Omar

Oh yeah, natural hair to each his/her own but if you sleep with your head in your hands, run, scream and panic when it drizzles unexpectedly or are otherwise overly stressed out over your hair then you need to let go because your madness is contributing stress related conditions in black people like, strokes, hypertension and ‘nigga moments’…

17 07 2008
shabooty

i just blogged about this (indirectly) …regarding natural hair / straightened hair:
(http://tinyurl.com/57rbn9)
there^

17 07 2008
TomatoHead

Not every chick who has straightened hair runs for the hills whenever water is in the area….

17 07 2008
willnotbetelevised

Ok TH we can be friends again. I thought you said that afros that you can stick you hand in (thus long) were unprofessional. I’m glad you found the professional cornrows. Mostly I haven’t done them in years b.c. one of the good things about natural hair is that I don”t have to spend an hour or more doing it if I doint’ want. And I haven’t wanted for a while. But i gotta put a bike helmet on this gigantic dome now and wearing it over my fro or head wrap was just looking like foolywang. So I guess I’ll take a couple of hours on Sunday and tiny braid up my scalp.

Never listen to anything anyone says if they use the word cornrolls. -troll food

17 07 2008
Knatural

wow.
Her credibilty was shot when she said ‘cornrolls’ AAAAAAHAHAHAHAHHA

17 07 2008
Amadeo

I’m kicking it up a notch…dreadloc mullet bitches!!!!

17 07 2008
Sister Toldja

I haven’t seen Hancock, but I thought the criticisms about the White woman thing were interesting. But I was of course gonna wait till I saw it until I judged. I have been saying for YEARS that the White woman was the Black man’s kryptonite!

17 07 2008
Yonnie3k

Is anybody else feeling really on edge about Fox News’ decision not to air the tape of Jesse Jackson calling Barack Obama a ni@@a? I mean, they must have something up their sleeve.

17 07 2008
Knatural

No way! Jesse Jackson said that?

Researching.

17 07 2008
Vanita

…I need to find a sista gyno in MD.

And when I first saw the conver of the New Yorker, I got upset, mostly because there are ALOT of ignorant people out there who will use that as fuel for their fire against Obama, and all other African Americans.
And those are the type of people who really have NO contact with any other people of color. What they see on TV and in magazines is what they believe. I was in WV this past week for a retreat, and those M-Fers were still flying confederate flags, but touting the Antietam battlefield (in their backyard) as the best Union victory in the Civil war. Shit, even the deer stopped and looked at me like ‘damn, I didnt know yall really existed’.

So covers like this are funny to those who are exposed to a bit more in this world. But unfortunately, most of this country isnt exposed to shit, so is this a message we really want to be sending them?

17 07 2008
Vanita

oh and Im sooo mad that the Jesse Jackson (and Im only mad he used ‘nigg@’ where people could have POSSIBLY heard him) Fiasco was blown up to be a ‘well dont all black people like Obama??’ issue. The news is soo funny and biased…its sad really.

17 07 2008
Vanita

BTW Joel don’t let these angry Black girls get to you. All that matters is that you are happy. They are jealous because White girls is who they aspire to be but would never admit it.

Keeping it real one day at a time.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!

I wanna cut my hair off and go natural again, but all I can remember is the torchure I went through to get it done. I dont like gettin my hair done, I dont even like when people touch it when it needs to be relaxed. But like Jen says, relaxers are NOT good for your hair. I guess I just need to get comfortable with it again.

17 07 2008
Bajan Girl

Good morning all, guess I missed a lot last night.

I see people still have not grasped the concept of what happens to you when you make blanket statement. (i.e. PreppyLiz)

My mom always says it is better for people to think you are an idiot than to open your mouth and confirm it. That would be a good lesson for many people to take to heart.

@ Omar – “Oh yeah, natural hair to each his/her own but if you sleep with your head in your hands, run, scream and panic when it drizzles unexpectedly or are otherwise overly stressed out over your hair then you need to let go because your madness is contributing stress related conditions in black people like, strokes, hypertension and ‘nigga moments’…”

That started my morning out very nicely. Thanks for the laugh.

17 07 2008
Vanita

so is anyone working downtown? I was pretty mad when I got off the train and it was all these AKA’s skee-weeing all over the place. They coulda waited until after rush hour to do that.

17 07 2008
Jen

Vanita, please be kidding.

17 07 2008
Jo

@Vanita–they’re still here? I thought the rally/celebration/reunion was over? I hate that skee-wee noise. If there is anything that makes me want to go on a rampage, that’s it.

17 07 2008
Breez

@Jen, she is not kidding.

@Jo, they are STILL HERE!

@ALL – I AM NOT HAPPY ABOUT THAT SHIT!

17 07 2008
Vanita

OMG, YES THEY ARE ALL STILL HERE!!! I swear, I saw this old AKA, she must have been an original dissenter. And I have nothing against them, Im just mad at any and all people who ruin my commute to place I dont wanna be.

17 07 2008
Knatural

Yeah, the Jesse Jackson story appears to be rumor. Even if it were true, it would only solidify Jesse’s inrelevance and dumbass-ness.
I saw the flock of AKAs this morning in downtown DC, they weren’t that annoying. But Tuesday, when they insisted on wearing WHITE PANTYHOSE with their all white ensembles with pink/green shoes, that shit annoyed me.

17 07 2008
Vanita

Yea they are marching down Penn Ave.
I really have alot to say about it, but I wont.

17 07 2008
Jen

I didn’t even realize they made white pantyhose for grownasswomen.

17 07 2008
Knatural

woow. Inrelevance?
My entire statement is shot.

17 07 2008
Vanita

Knat, you didnt get off @ archives station. First off, that station only has ONE exit, ONE escalator and one elevator. So on a normal rush hour day its hell to get out. Add to the fact its ALL these AKA’s, not walking fast, standing on the left side of the escalator (I HATE THAT SHIT) skee-weeing everytime a new train arrives with more AKA’s and confused ass white people who are then angered by the line to get on the escalator.

17 07 2008
Jo

@Knat—I heard about the “nigg@” debacle on GMA this morning…it mayn’t be a rumor after all…

17 07 2008
Breez

I’m with you Vanita. To each his own. I have lots of good friends in sororities. However, I can’t stand a chatty chick in the morning. It’s 8:30 a.m. That much shit could not have possibly happened in your day already. Shut the fuck up!

17 07 2008
mrsepps

“What a sad group of self hating Black woman. No wonder society doesn’t respect your race as a whole. Instead of pulling yourself together and mobilizing over significant issues, the Black women in this thread are bitching over a hair. It’s just hair! I’ve been a blonde, red head, and a brunette. It doesn’t matter! It’s just hair. Get it together! As long as your hair looks nice, what’s the big deal? I do have to admit that fros and dreads look really dirty to me but that’s just a personal preference”.

BWAHAHHAHAHA WHO LEFT THE FUCKING GATE OPEN AGAIN??? Fros and dreds look dirty??? ahahha last time i check mostly white ppl get lice and flakes and they wash their hair every fucking day. No one is complaining about their hair they are complaining about how ppl like You(ignorant) not just white want to give us the stink eye at work because we choose to look different and not like the regualr white bread. Nice hair to you is most likey straight or white girl curly instead of fresh braids, fro and dreds which also look very nice.

17 07 2008
Knatural

When is “Nigger/a” going to be a topic? That’s sure to be the most contentious subject, more so than natural hair! Easily a thousand comments in one day.

17 07 2008
mrsepps

BTW Joel don’t let these angry Black girls get to you. All that matters is that you are happy. They are jealous because White girls is who they aspire to be but would never admit it.

Keeping it real one day at a time.

bwhahahahhah ignorant ass fool…since when did black woman want, flat asses, saggy boobs, pale skin and thin unmanageable hair??? last time i checked white women get botox, lip, hip, ass, tittie implants just so they can have curves like black women…WHO HAS BEEN BRAINWASHING YOU???

and what is this soft natrual hair=stacey dash.. bitch thats called weave that aint her hair hahahah!!!

YOU CRACK ME UP!! Keep it up!

17 07 2008
Vanita

‘Nigger/a’ as a topic…that would be more madness than all those damn AKA’s this morning.

17 07 2008
mrsepps

OHH Nigger/a should def be the next topic.. then all the whitebreads can come in here and have an excuse to type the N-word AWESOME!!!! cant wait 🙂

17 07 2008
Vanita

and what is this soft natrual hair=stacey dash.. bitch thats called weave that aint her hair hahahah!!!
bwhahahahahaha!!!

17 07 2008
Jen

Mrs. Epps is telling too much truth for this early in the morning.

But, while we’re on the subject, I need some hip, ass and titty implants.

*sigh*

17 07 2008
Deesigner

Knat, since there is no topic today, I invite you to get the N-word convo going.

The floor is yours…………

17 07 2008
mrsepps

hahahahahahhahahahahhahahahahhahahahahhaha@ Jen…I have some to spare!

17 07 2008
Knatural

Maybe the N-word entry will be in the book…

17 07 2008
Deesigner

@Jen,
Who was the Ob/Gyn with natural hair that you saw in Houston?

17 07 2008
mrsepps

uh oh deesigner.. gonna start some shit today huh? I can see it now.. Becky gonna walk up in here N-word blazing and ST or Muse gonna call her a cracker ass cracker trailer trash honkie tonka….lmaoo…i crack myself up…i need coffee…

17 07 2008
Jen

It is funny you asked that, Deesigner. Because, initially, she was the gyno “from my hometown” who had straight hair. But, she actually wore a wig. And when I googled her name, the first picture of her that popped up showed her with natural hair.

I guess THAT is why she wore the wig–I ALWAYS WONDERED. lol

Anyway, her name is Dr. Wanda Mott and she is with Women’s Specialists of Houston.

17 07 2008
Deviant

i first saw them clown this on The Daily Show so I never had the chance to get mad cause I was laffing at how it was presented. I never really liked The New Yorker it seems like a pretentious magazine. People I know that read it read it just to say they read it. i do think people are overreacting to it and are disingenuous in their motivation.

17 07 2008
www.anythingblack.net

I think its overkill.

17 07 2008
Deesigner

They are going at it on The View about the N-Word

17 07 2008
Merri Lee

How many times is Creole coming back? I really want to know what her deal with Chris is, and her hatred of Black folks.

17 07 2008
Yonnie3k

Oh hell – what did Whoopi say about the N-word. I hope Sherri keeps her silly mouth shut.

17 07 2008
Knatural

Nigger/a? I just hate hearing it in public ESPECIALLY in mixed company; I hate when people say “it’s a just a word, why give it so much power”; I hate that’s it’s marketed all over the planet via Hip-Hop; I hate that White people feign ignorance toward why they can’t use it; I hate that the chick on British Big Brother 8 didn’t check her friend for using it; I hate that I even hate it. Part of me shouldn’t care, but I do…

To me, it’s an insult, not a term of endearment, but in rare cases can be used for comedic effect. Not that Blacks ‘own’ the word, but when non-Blacks use it, it kind of grates my sensibilities, and conjures up images of Jim Crow and water-hoses and pure, blatant, hateful racism. Not funny racism, which I all for.

17 07 2008
Amadeo

Here’s a thought in realtion to the Nigger topic: I was watching a Batman Doc last night and they talked about his symbol…then they mentioned that Hitler made gay people wear a pink triangle to identify them. This is symbol is now used by lot’s of gay’s/gay groups to represent themselves now.

In general I think it’s a to each his own. Me and my friends call each other losers…I wouldn’t suggest you walk up and address us as such. For all of those who say “if you can say it why can’t I?” You can say it…just don’t be surprised if I hit you dead in the throat.

We all have freedom of speech…you just better be ready to deal with the reaction to what you say.

17 07 2008
Vanita

Very well said Amadeo.

17 07 2008
Jen

I shall have to cosign on Amadeo’s assessment.

I will add that I am very much accustomed to “urban” young people of all backgrounds using the word “nigga.” It doesn’t make me flinch. But, I have to say that my tolerance reaches its limitation once a non-Black young person turns 22 or graduates from college. At that point, niggas should be reserved for private conversation. Also, kids in NY need to learn that they may NOT use that word in front of little old Black ladies on the subway. WTH, Yankee children?? Ain’t ya’ll got no HOME TRAINING??

My use of the word is relatively profuse, but I also curse more than I’d like to, so…

17 07 2008
Jo

@Amadeo

Too true. When alone some of my girlfriends and I think nothing of calling each other “bitch” or “ho”, but we do so ironically and in all fun. But we try not to do it in public (occasionally we slip) because we don’t want toencourage others to address us as such. I’ve also been known to call my white male friends both “honky” and “nigg@”, understanding that our relationship should be “post-racial”. Likewise, I take it in stride if they call me “ho” or “woman” (in *that* tone–you know the one I’m talking about) because I know where their hearts are at. But again, we generally don’t do this in mixed company because we know we’re likely to offend people who don’t understand our relationship. For the most part, these have become terms of endearment for us.

17 07 2008
Michael

I didn’t read through all 1 million comments but I have to disagree with you. Sure I am one of those yuppie assholes who thinks “They won’t get it” because they won’t. Lets say all the liberal news media didn’t report on it at all, Fox news would be all over this. The New Yorker was irresponsible in making a cartoon that can be used as a weapon and they knew that. No conservative magazine would have a cover of McCain calling his wife a Cunt (A rumor people are saying he did and certain groups believe like the terrorist topic about Obama) because they know it would not come off as satire. Things like this actually hurt campaigns because they bring these stereotypes or rumors right back up and shine them in everyone’s face.

No magazine is an island and to think just because a certain group doesn’t read it means it won’t be reported on is silly. If country music magazine had something ridiculous on the cover we would hear about it.

17 07 2008
HeavenLeiBlu

I’m pretty much in total agreement w/Jen on the N word, although I use it quite liberally behind closed doors w/a couple people.

17 07 2008
Omar

If the N-word is just a word then…

… “muthafucka I will kill you” is just a phrase. So they you can call me what you want but…

….MUTHAFUCKA I WILL KILL YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!

17 07 2008
Omar

To add to Knat’s list I hate that they act like they don’t know what the Confederate Flag symbolizes, but I quote Malcolm X, am caught reading the Final Call or have black gloves on and greet my fellow brogthers with a fist in the air then they get all nervous and shit. oh please!!

17 07 2008
Amadeo

The Confederate Flag is just part of heritage!!!!

Like hanging niggers and having picnics afterwards.

17 07 2008
Jen

I am really not bothered by the confederate flag. I was before I lived around people who wore it and hung it. Afterward, I was introduced to too many good ol boys with it engraved onto their belt buckles, but were willing to go to bat for me (when I was still calling them backward ass rednecks behind closed doors) to view it as anything more than what they call it–a symbol of their heritage.

I know what it symbolizes to many of us, but I don’t assume anything shady when I see somebody who embraces the symbol.

17 07 2008
willnotbetelevised

can see it now.. Becky gonna walk up in here N-word blazing and ST or Muse gonna call her a cracker ass cracker trailer trash honkie tonka…

Too much, why am i at a likkle chirruns school just about dying. Lucky i’m on break b.c. if I wasn’t these halflings would be asking me what i’m laughing about and I couldn’t tell little Aiden what it was.

17 07 2008
chaoticdiva

Ignore the fuckers. After all, they printed that shit for a reaction. The more attention it gets, the more money they make, and the more people lose IQ points for reading that bullshit.

And for the record, I’m not dead, but my hard drive is, so thats why I haven’t been around…for those of you that care (I.E. the 3 people that I talk to that probably already know…lmao).

I’ll be back to lend more reigns of terror upon you unsuspecting blog-readers.

And yes, I safely dodged the crazy, even though I bumped into him…lmao.

17 07 2008
Knatural

Has anyone read Nigger: The Strange Career of a Troublesome Word by Randall Kennedy? It’s a worth-while read because it discusses the social and legal implications of using this word, especially in mixed company and around those who don’t understand what it means to Blacks. If I remember correctly: Kennedy talks about a real-life scenario in which a company was sued for allowing Blacks to refer to one another as Nigga/My Nigga, in the ‘endearing’ tone.

And, not sure if anyone will remember this, but a few years ago, here in DC, a White city councilmember used the word “niggardly” in reference to the city’s budget. Niggardly means miserly. Anyway, his colleague got all bent out of shape because they heard NIGGER.

Last spring, I read in Essence magazine about a woman who ordered a dark-brown leather sofa to be delivered to her home. When she happened to read the tag, it read “nigger-brown”. The couch was made in China.

A few years ago a Black bike rider rode from Egypt to South Africa (I think) in honor of his Black friend that died and came across a store called “Nigger”.

Nigger has too many negative connotations to be ok. The points Amadeo and Jen made are definitely valid, but it goes beyond using it in private circles to me. It’s the global impact that upsets me the most.

17 07 2008
Mrs.Epps

KNat- my mom has that book..it was very very very interesting

17 07 2008
Merri Lee

Side note – in another thread I mentioned that Michelle Obama would probably remain organization neutral. I was wrong

17 07 2008
Bajan Girl

@Amadeo.. I second that thought…

Every morning via email my sister and I greet each other thusly:

Her: Hey Ho…
Me: Sup bitch…

We are family… we call each other whatever we want, as is the case with my CLOSE friends, but anyone else calling us out of our names will have to be prepared for the subsequent beat down.

@Jen – “But, I have to say that my tolerance reaches its limitation once a non-Black young person turns 22 or graduates from college. At that point, niggas should be reserved for private conversation.”

So true.. so true…
too many grown people have forgotten to “put away childish things” now that they are not children anymore. There is nothing worse than hearing someone speaking out of order and when you turn around instead of seeing a child you see an adult

17 07 2008
Omar

Jen, it is more about the contrast, somehow any hint of black natonalism or respect for it is un-american (whatever that means) but the treasonous, murderous, enslaving racist institution known as the Confederacy is rather seen as heritage so it is Ok.

SMH @ “nigger-brown” couch

17 07 2008
Omar

There are a whole lot of things we could stand to not do in public or ever take pictures…

(see pics section of the FB group)

17 07 2008
Jo

@Omar–it’s true. But y’know, a part of me is really proud that whenever I see a Dateline exclusive about teenage drinking/drug parties and the like there never seem to be any of us in attendance. Those photos on FB are criminal, but at least there aren’t expose videotapes of Jerome an’ ’em high on salvia and sucking each other’s toes.

17 07 2008
Vanita

The story does say she will help out any other organization. But I dont think she could have refused the offer from them anyway.

17 07 2008
Merri Lee

Just to be clear -I didn’t mean that pro/against any organization, I just thought she’d remain neutral for ANY org, not just sororities.

17 07 2008
Merri Lee

i can’t watch the video at work so i don’t know what happened, but here’s The View

17 07 2008
Vanita

@ merri lee – I know what you meant, but like I said, I dont think she could have declined the offer either. Without incurring some type of wrath.

17 07 2008
Amadeo

My thing is this…every group (friends, races, clubs, etc.) have things that they use amongst themselves that aren’t cool for others to use in reference to them. Mind you, standing out in the street shouting it is just stupid, but I don’t try to adopt your thing and I don’t want you to adopt mine.

Like dudes who serve in the military together…I worked with a white dude who said the brothers he served with used it, let him know that they would kick his ass if he did it…because they were one group, however, they would kick the ass of another black dude calling him any type of white slurs…he was in the group and they weren’t.

17 07 2008
mrsepps

lol Bajan!!! me and my friends say that too.

Me: Whats good bitch
her: HEyyyyyyy skizzer

17 07 2008
riz

The AKA thing upsets me for some reason.

I see how she was put in that position, where she would’ve been talked about in all kinds of ways, had she declined. But couldn’t she have just worked with all of the sororities, taken pics, and shown allegiance to the orgs without picking one particular group? Man.

But for those who are bragging about it, I’d like to point out that she made it all the way up to this point without an affiliation so…

I’ll just leave it at that.

17 07 2008
Sister Toldja

Ok, I am non-Greek but I am very disappointed to hear people criticizing Michele for accepting honorary membership in to AKA. I thought Black folks would dig that. YOU PEOPLE ARE NEVER SATISFIED. That is RIDICULOUS. So, do people think now that Barack Obama and his wife are no longer in tune with the needs of the Delta and SGRHO contingent? If she wears Prada, should Louis Vuitton entusiasts feel neglected? If her favorite burger is the Whopper, should McDonalds shareholders fall back from donating to the campaign? If she gets an honorary degree from Hampton, should Howard alums start checking out McCain?

Seriously- GROW UP BLACK PEOPLE. Be happy that Michele has aligned herself with an organization that serves the Black community and addresses the needs of Black women. Be proud about the Obama campaign PERIOD. BTW- I’m sure she was INVITED. It’s not like she went to a college greek fair and looked at every org and said “Oh, I want that one”. Nor is she saying “I don’t like the other orgs”. She is accepting a very high honor from an organization of Black women! YOUR sisters, whethere you wear the same letters, different letters or no letters.

Black people are our own worst enemy, I swear. We are are own Fox News.

17 07 2008
Janus

@ Muse and Sista Toldja on the New Yorker Cover – CO-FUCKING-SIGNNNNNNNNNNN!!!

Sigh just too much co-signs right now for me to keep up with…I haven’t even read thru the million and 1 posts lol.

Another Bajan on the blog? BIG UP BAJAN GIRL!!!! I would say waht the rassole but I don’t think thats a fitting way to commemorate ur landing lol…. umm you now land from down behind God back? LOL

@ Sista Toldja again- I agree, I think the Michelle Obama & AKA thing is a non-issue. AKA offered her a honorary membership and she accepted… SO WHAT?! How is this different from f she was one before? Stupse.

17 07 2008
Vanita

LMAO @ Stupse…

About the Michelle Obama AKA acceptance. Like Merri Lee said, we WISHED she would have stayed neutral. Oh well, she didnt. Whether she accepted it or not, it would have STILL been met the same way: Some upset, and some not so upset.
And, I would like to point out, ‘a spokeswoman for Mrs. Obama, Katie McCormick Lelyveld, said: “Because of her respect for each of the historically black sororities and fraternities, her membership is
non-exclusive. She looks forward to working with all of them to help
bring change to their communities.”

18 07 2008
nelowafer

Preppy Liz

And I don’t like seeing the members of your cracker clan with ugly bleached hair, ugly and overly expensive Abercromie and Fitch clothing, and a smug attitude. But I do anyway. All the time. I guess we all have our eyesores to deal with everyday.

18 07 2008
riz

Yeah, whatever.

I don’t recall criticizing Michelle Obama or making it any type of big deal. I co-signed on the fact that I wish she would have stayed neutral, thus representing a larger portion of Black women rather than just one org. I suggested that she could have met the same ends by using different means. Did I say that she should have joined any OTHER org, or that she shouldn’t align herself with the Black female community at all? Yeah, no. I simply pointed out that she had come this far without that, and needn’t join a particular Greek organization in order to serve the interests of Black women.

I’ll say it again: Joining a specific Greek org wasn’t necessary to align herself with Black women. I don’t think it was necessary for Eleanor Roosevelt either.

Note what I didn’t say: (hint: I didn’t say that Michelle is wrong, that my opinion has changed about her, that I don’t support her anymore, or that it’s any bigger of a deal than any other response to any other comment, ever).

If that makes me Michelle Obama’s worst enemy, then glory be! November is a good look.

18 07 2008
TomatoHead

Riz, no one said that you said anything. ST was making a statement about people who whine about everything. She didn’t mention you…perhaps you were feeling like she was because you do in fact harbor those feelings? I dunno.

What was Michelle Obama gonna do? Say no thanks, I would not like to honorarily join your organization of black women like me. I would love to tell you that I could, but I would not like to ostracize the other black organizations who will no longer vote for my husband because I was honorarily welcomed into your fold.

That’s just stupid. Anyone with half a brain, even other sorors who aren’t AKAs would see that her being welcomed by the largest black sorority is a great honor for her. I certainly wouldn’t turn it down. I doubt she needed any help with aligning herself with black women. She is a black woman. This is probably more for the AKAs then Michelle Obama, they get more credibility, she shows that she can run with hifalutin blacks as well.

18 07 2008
Bajan Girl

@Janus

“Another Bajan on the blog? BIG UP BAJAN GIRL!!!! I would say waht the rassole but I don’t think thats a fitting way to commemorate ur landing lol…. umm you now land from down behind God back? LOL”

reach long time, but jus now lan an come shore here….

and I second your stupse at the AKA thing… why is it an issue?

18 07 2008
Muse
18 07 2008
riz

Well, I don’t harbor the feelings that I’m Black people’s own worst enemy. That much, I can verify.

I already mentioned that I could see why she accepted. That was in the first comment. I already implied that I think it’s about the org, than Michelle herself. That’s why I said that there will be bragging involved, and I pointed out that she got here on her own without any assistance.

There really isn’t an issue here. Everyone, including myself, have stated that isn’t a big deal. We’ve all simply voiced rather disinterested opinions on each side of the Should She or Shouldn’t She Have debate. There isn’t a live controversy at this point.

If the comment wasn’t directed at me, then [shrug]. See above for lack of controversy. If it was, then please note that I’m not going to be lumped into a category of Enemy of my People, just because I voiced a rather disinterested opinion in response to someone else’s comment.

Either way, the topic now officially bores me.

18 07 2008
Nice

Knat, I have the book Nigger. I read it when it first came out. I thought it was an interesting read myself. I never knew the kind of hate mail that Hank Aaron got when he was on the verge of breaking the home run record.

18 07 2008
Sister Toldja

Riz, my comments were directed at you. I have heard more extreme reaction to Mrs. Obama’s choice and when it was mentioned on here, I simply put my two sense in. And I still maintain that our predeliection to complain about every little thing makes us our own worst enemy.

20 07 2008
Lolo

Chris,

This post pretty much sealed my high regard for you.

Of course, after reading your post on cougars I feel the need to stress that said regard is platonic and not at all based on how you look when you’re all dressed up like a bag of Skittles.

20 07 2008
ViK

/Off topic:

Can we get a topic on being colorstruck? This quote killed me “So he comes out first and he is ok, so I think, it’s ok. And then Leo comes out and Leo is black. And I thought: What’s going on?”

Booo.

20 07 2008
rai

def not reading all of the comments. . . but I will put money on that it was addressed. the point of this cartoon was to show america how dumb americans are. . . how did they do this, u may ask. . . they put a cartoon on the cover, people jumped to conclusions, and didn’t read the article. . . essentially judging a book by it’s cover. . .

and then we wonder why kids that get a raft made of a half a tire and some hay, come here from a country who main exports are cocaine/rice/corn/sugar, they walk into the child with your child, and officially fawks up the curve for your little american born retard. . . americans are fawking fawk tards! man, the people that DON’T read the magazine are the ones all up in arms. . . people that read the magazine KNOW they do this shyt OFTEN and for good reason. it is a liberal magazine, for goodness sake. this cover wasn’t supposed to get to the retarded masses. it was an inside joke between new yorker readership & obama supporters, about how ridiculous the rest of the country is. folks say bush is dumb. . . more and more I begin to think that he is in fact an accurate representation of the average american.

20 07 2008
rai

*look around* ooooooooh this shyt got racial??? burn. *steps out slowly*

20 07 2008
riz

@ST,

I just need to clarify that I have a huge Lady Crush on Michelle. In my eyes, she can do nothing to diminish her inner fabulousness, sophistication and grace. Because of that, I know that NONE of the shennanigans that tore up the Clinton White House will be anywhere close to the Obamas (also because Barack is not crazy). So I may voice an opinion on some minor things, it doesn’t stop me from supporting her.

I think the second part is what separates casual conversation from being an Enemy of our Own. Other cultures may talk about each other like dogs, but at the end of the day, they still have a unified front and do whatever it takes to keep power in their respective communities. We don’t do that. Instead we go on Faux News and act a fool.

But I support my people, and I do believe that we can learn from each other. I see that constant criticism is def a problem for us. But I’ll do whatever it takes to support the right people (i.e. not Jesse), because I believe in us, and it’s time that we came up.

20 07 2008
riz

@Vik,

The colorstruck debate is so old. So old. Yeah, I know, some people still care about it, but NOTHING new can be said on the issue.

Here’s the truth: Only Black folks care about color. White folks think that the darkies are all the same. By “darkies, I mean, “negroes in all shades.”

The only difference is for those who don’t “look black” and people mistake you for being another culture. That’s halfway interesting, because then you get to hear what Others say when the rest of the negroes aren’t around (I guess, for the same reason that Others lurk on this board).

However, the Mistaken Black is not privy to this type of information because you’re a “light skinned Black,” and thus “more acceptable” to Others. It’s because people don’t think that you’re Black at all… and that reverts back to good old-fashioned racism: Black vs. Non-Black. But once people realize that you are a Negro, then they treat you accordingly, no matter where you sit on the color wheel.

Not to mention that most people have absolutely no grasp on race anyway, so every single Black person of every shade has been mistaken for being another culture. When that happens, I make it a point to explain the diversity within Black culture. Just like Irish people don’t all have red hair, so it is that every Black person does not look like Grace Jones… and I bet you that the Hollywood types have even mistaken her for being Brazillian or something.

21 07 2008
Ariah

“The outrage displayed is, therefore, a disingenuous mechanism for gathering props from/getting laid by other liberal yuppie douches who find logically vacuous righteous indignation super fucking sexy.”

Woooo, I heart you muchly.

22 07 2008
xerock

I love the way that you talk about the “so called” EBP’s…namely your own audience.
And for that matter Barack himself.

But you are correct, education doesn’t equal intelligence. Not with today’s diploma mills churning out “professors” like this:

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2008/02/madonna_constantine_falls_from.html

I’ll bet Madonna took great umbrage at the New Yorker cover as well.

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