Thoughts for Thursday: Stupid Email

19 06 2008
From: Daniel Prieto
Date: May 18
Subject: YOU ARE EUROPEAN TOO
Stupidity Level: 8.5/10

I know you get a lot of hate mail and I am sorry for becoming on of those assholes pointing stupid details to you but, at least for me, this one is important.

All americans tend to disconnect themselves from their history thinking about America and themselves as a new fresh start so they start talking about the middle ages like it happened in another world. And please excuse me for this but the same thing happens with black americans that try to isolate their culture from “white” or “european” culture (go to Africa and you’ll see how “white” you are).

What I am trying to say is that you (a black American) and me (a white European) booth have the middle ages, the french revolution and the hundred year war in common because, like it or not, we can both track a big part of our culture and influences to that. You are american and black but you speak english and you are for the most part, culturally Anglo-Saxon, sorry to point that out.
Although you are culturally many things apart from Anglo-Saxon and you are absolutely right to tell me this but this is my point. Yes, you are American and I am European, yes you are black and I am white and these and many other things make us different but, the old Europe, the middle ages, the roman empire, the renaissance and even the spanish inquisition are all things that shaped our culture and who we are with good and bad results.
If you are talking about Europe 500 years ago, you are as european as I am, even if you are black. Don’t talk about the old europe like is a distant culture because it is our history. Even if you happen to be the son of a recent immigrant like Obama, you are basically culturally European because this is the language you speak, the laws you obey, the clothes you wear, the way you eat your food, even your myths and religion are all for the most part influenced and traced back to that distant old europe.
I don’t like the same things you don’t like about this heritage but I have to admit that this is who we are, even if we don’t like it. If we don’t like our past it is our duty to change the future, we can not avoid our responsibility negating our past. That past wether it is adopted, imposed or inherited it is our past and we can not run away from it.
Let me finish with a question, you are mostly black and you could say that you do not have any responsibility in the native american genocide but as an american who speaks english, pays taxes, votes and obeys the law ¿Do you think you are morally responsible to pay reparations?
¿Do you think that when you adopt a culture you also inherit all it’s debts?
PD. I also hate when people revere the Roman empire, the conquest of the west, the renaissance or the second world war as the heights of all that is good with the western culture. All those things were written with the blood of countless not-western people who didn’t ask to take part in this western rally to destined enlightenment.
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246 responses

19 06 2008
Saun

What the hell am I reading!?!? I can’t and I won’t! There is so much bullsh*t in this letter that I’m not even gonna try to debate it. It’s like trying to teach math to a dog…he just won’t get it.

19 06 2008
Vanita

Ok. I am not European. That culture was FORCED up African Americans, and even as they tried to stay in touch with their African roots, they were forced/tricked in to giving that up. I have so much to say about this email, but Im hungry right now and I dont have the strength. Ill get back l8r

19 06 2008
Nice

All I have to say is: YOU ARE AFRICAN TOO.

19 06 2008
Educated NSU Demon

Chris, I’m gonna have to figure out how to take ownership of the entire internet, so that way I can hand it over to you; because you clearly deserve it if you cared enough to read that whole email. I stopped after the second paragraph.

19 06 2008
Knatural

I don’t get the joke.

19 06 2008
r.g

stupid email indeed.

19 06 2008
19 06 2008
Sylph

The letter gets an automatic FAIL.

Chris, you have to poledance for me for even posting this. Make the birthday girl happy.

19 06 2008
Pocho

What the hell? Is this supposed to be like when stupid white neo-hippie Rastafarian college kids talk about how we’re all Ethiopian? I never really understand what they’re getting at, either.

19 06 2008
Michael

This letter sucks

19 06 2008
sweett

W
T
F
?

19 06 2008
sweett

makes me think of “friday after next” when that guy was like “wtf is this ish? i can’t get jiggy with this ish…” color me confused.

19 06 2008
Ethel

Well…uhm…I guess he told you. ???!

And genetically, we are all linked as the earliest mitochondrian [a part in a cell] which is passed matrilinially, was found in Africa. So genetically all white people deep down are black. Or something.

And the price of tea in China is now: $6.98 US [see: http://supertart.com/priceofteainchina/index.php%5D

19 06 2008
SOMALI QUEEN

Specifically, human kind orginated from east Africa — woot woot!

19 06 2008
Shay-d-lady

Umm… this is the kind of shit that makes me so mad. Why did he feel the need to email you that? does he not understand that we all agree that these are parts of our culture that shaped our American History but that as African americans, Native American, and other minorities our ancestors always played the same role? We were never the agressors, never the leaders, never the decision makers so why would we take.. you know what? Fuck him and that bullshit as email…….

19 06 2008
shabooty

Euro-trash have access to the intranets?

…fuckin’ Al Gore.

19 06 2008
19 06 2008
london

somali queen.. glad to have you back…
chris – thank you for letting our moral guide back..
sometimes we do need to check ourselves don’t we…
what a a hoot!

meanwhile..
yes…young daniel whatshisname that wrote this mess of life is missing one thing which our somali queen and a couple others brought up..
we all are african under the skin.. and yes eastern african until further notice..

what was your reply to this meschugene? or does this post serve as the reply?…
you are one clever puppy…
daniel – bring it on..
love the stupidity level measurement. chirs. nice touch…
a bit worrying you have a such a filing system for bullshit e-mails but cool nonetheless… might adopt this at work…

19 06 2008
Kaynaan

^ hear hear
glad to have the Queen back

19 06 2008
The Doc Is In

European, African, Asian, American, white, yellow, red…we’re all black…in the dark…in the bedroom…under the sheets…having sex (figured I might have to spell it out for the slow folks like Daniel)

19 06 2008
The Doc Is In

Thank you Ethel! Now I finally know what *that* has to do with the price of tea in China, LOL.

19 06 2008
donnie

Boooooooooooo! aye Daniel…shut the fuck up!

sowot..now we all really european, i gues we should learn to love brother whitey? no, guy, fuck you very much!

19 06 2008
Leandra

What’s Daniel Pierto’s point??? To answer the ridiculous question at the end, as a descendent of a) Native Americans and b) slaves, why would you be paying reparations??? Undoubtedly, you’d be receiving them.

I’ll give him the cultural Europeaness, but so? If anything, it represents their cultural imperialism, their attempt (however successful) to place themselve atop of the racial hierarchy in the subconscious of the masses.

What everyone needs to realize is that the ORIGINAL MAN is African and the closest descendents to the original man has PIGMENTATION resulting in dark(er) skin, hair, and eyes. All this foolish praise of biolgically inferior traits which will definitely reveal themselves as such as the climate change progresses.

“Only when the last tree has been cut down; Only when the last river has been poisoned; Only when the last fish has been caught; Only then will you find that money cannot be eaten.”
– Native American proverb

This speaks to the reality of European culture and it’s short-sighted, foolish ignorance. Being European culturally isn’t a good thing because all that matters is the bottom line and only now that the survival of the ENTIRE human population–not just so-called minorities, who happen to make up the majority of the human race–is at stake, do white people care enough to realize that money isn’t everything.

Damn fools. The money we have now isn’t even worth anything. No gold standard. No precious metal backing. Just cotton with a theoretical, digital value.

Should we be happy now that Pierto has shown us the “light”?

19 06 2008
AJ55

Wow, simply wow.
I’ve been reading this blog for a while now, and out of every last post, this is the one that makes me want to respond, (although I may have to go back and put in my $.02 about “Dreams” as well…)

You know, as a student, I’ve had European History shoveled down my throat every since kindergarten when we were told that the pilgrims and Indians ate together peacefully after the Indians showed the pilgrims how to grow food. Now after finishing up a class in American History, and taking AP European History last year, and World History (AKA the beginnings of “European History 1”) the year before that, I feel that I can safely say that I never wanna hear another word about Europe or the culture ever again, and it pains me so much to know that as soon as I head back to school in the fall, that’s exactly what’ll happen…

There’s so many things in that letter that bring up so many emotions, so I’ll just start with the big one.

We are not “All European,” unless of course he’s willing to accept that he’s only European by way of Africa first and foremost. Now about sharing a culutural legacy in ancient Europe, that is something that is forced on me, something that I would jettison if I could. Everyone and everything that the Europeans look up, cherish, and value, especially the farther back you go, seems to be built on the backs of some group of “savages” whose only fault was not wearing excessive amounts of clothing and looking like the Europeans.

I mean, look at the Europeans! Their entire culture is based on discrimination! By class, by job, by nation, by race, it seems that their existence would be null and void if they were ever forced to accept another group of people as equal.

AS for reparations, as a young black author, I don’t want any amount of money. Because giving money to blacks wouldn’t even be a band-aid on the problem at this stage in the game. What’s needed is education and property, the two things necessary to rise up from government dependence. Why should I have to pay? As a black man who has among other things, Native American, and Belizean, blood in him if your willing to look far back enough, (not that far) what opportunities have my people taken from others?

Maybe this isn’t coherent, maybe I’m tired, or maybe I’m tired of having their history thrown at me…

19 06 2008
puff

this mother picked the wrong chris to enforce political correctness on. poor fool….

p.s. i speak english, but i’m african born and raised, and i could trace my ancestry on the continent back further than kunta kinte, if i gave enough of a shit. does this make me european?

19 06 2008
Esquire

“What I am trying to say is that you (a black American) and me (a white European) booth have the middle ages, ”

SPELLING ERROR!!!!! ARGUMENT RENDERED INVALID

mmmmmoooooooooohahahahahahaha

19 06 2008
Landon

I disagree with the overall message but i understand what (he/she?) is trying to convey…

Yes we are black and have African features but our culture is more western oriented. For example I live in Harlem near 116th street which is mostly African immigrants. Clothes, food, language, traditions are not similar to black Americans. There are echoes of our past that are obviously African but in reality for the last 300 years we have been force feed European styles, food, liquor, clothes, music even (we just altered it to our taste w/ African beats. Outside of color if we visited a European country over an African country we would be more comfortable in how European country is configured. It would resemble American life more so than African. At least in NYC there is a major divide between Africans and black Americans.

I don’t fully agree with the letter but i do agree with one or two of his points. We have a simulated to a western society in black neighborhoods. One thing slavery did to us was “CLEANSE” us of our culture, as if our culture was a disease. Its a shame. I would love to know where my ancestors are from. All i do know is my family has been in America since 1823. Sadly its as if that is when my family began to exist. Lets be honest, if they rounded up all black folks and dropped us back in Africa, we would not be all too happy about it. Even in college when we studied abroad most of us went to European or Latin countries. If you did study in Africa it was prob. South Africa which has the highest European influence.

19 06 2008
Cola

Um.. I have read this twice already. WTF was the point of his email?! He knows damn well Chris isn’t going to change his tune, so why write the phucking email?!

Also I am not up to speed on my grammar but I thought we only utilized the upside down question mark in spanish.. Somebody fill me in!

¿Do you think that when you adopt a culture you also inherit all it’s debts?

19 06 2008
sarah

that hurt my eyes 😦

19 06 2008
vitazza

What the Holy Hell????……..goes to show ya never know who or what simple ass is reading thei blog!!!! Damn…IDK, and OMG
I’m flustered

19 06 2008
Esquire

Landon shutup.

This letter is stupid and you know it. This is the same kinda guy who only claims Barack’s white side, but demands that we claim some looooooooooooooooooooooong distant ancestory with Europeans. He is too dumb to realize that all life started in Africa. So his point is stooopid.

The beginning of this shitty letter implies we are all related. At the end he makes a distinction between westerners and “non” westerners.

“I also hate when people revere the Roman empire, the conquest of the west, the renaissance or the second world war as the heights of all that is good with the western culture. All those things were written with the blood of countless not-western people who didn’t ask to take part in this western rally to destined enlightenment.”

MAKE UP YOUR MIND HOMIE. He is not allowed to argue in the alternative. Maybe this is the asshole attorney in me, but he must pick an argument and run with it. He cant make a point and then use an alternative one to support another when it is convenient for him.
Im googling away right now to see who this dimwit is. Then Im going to start working at 9:10.

19 06 2008
JaBe

AJ55, I like your style.

19 06 2008
JaBe

The email had way too many grammatical errors; besides, Daniel is probably fresh outta required World History 101and is merely attempting to repeat the discussion of the day.

19 06 2008
puff

landon

“western” does not equal “white”, nor are “western” and “non-western” as mutually exclusive as people like to make them out to be. i don’t speak my native language and i wear western clothing, but i’m still an african who calls nigeria home. the idiot who sent this email is making these terms seem set in stone and polar opposites of one another – please don’t flatter him by suggesting his BS has any substance.

19 06 2008
Landon

Esquire:

Like i said i don’t agree with the letter but i understand some parts of his message. You and I both know ten times more about European history than African History. Hell the 100 year war is where the middle finger comes from and FUCK YOU. i can write an essay on damn near 50 major wars and battles in Europe. I can write about 10 major wars in Africa and 5 of them dealt with European countries.
Our education is European, we spent two chapters on African history in school, but damn near 6 months on European history. The only way you would learn about African history is if you did it on your own, or majored in African American studies (those majors get lambasted on this site).
Your Obama reference, are we not guilty of the same thing? Tiger Woods, he wants to be recognized as black and Asian but we jumped down his throat saying nah nucca you black, when his mom was a big influence on him.

His argument falls apart at the end and i agree with Esquire — but we cannot let our emotions (not wanting to concede we have been westernized) interfere with reality. If you disagree with the European cultural references my question to you is how many handbags and shoes do you own that end in a Vowel?

19 06 2008
puff

landon

the fact that you recognise the influence that the “West” has had on you, a person of African descent, suggests that the terms “west” and “non-western” and “white” and “non-white” are not necessary as mutually exclusive as they are made out to be. please don’t flatter the idiot who composed this email by suggesting that his presentation of these categories as polar opposites of each other – and his positioning of chris and this blog in one and not the other – is anything other than bullshit. i was born and raised in africa and i’m sitting here in a pencil skirt and collared shirt – not traditional african gear according to national geographic. the west has influenced me, true, doesn’t necessarily mean i’m wholly western or wholly non-western.

19 06 2008
puff

sorry about the double post, shitty internet :s

19 06 2008
Landon

Puff:

I am not talking about you. YOu know where you are from. You have direct Afircan Blood in the last generation. My direct family has not been there fro almost 200 years. 10 generations. His argument does not hold up against your case. Because you are in fact African. You know your traditions, you know where you family is from. I have no idea where in Africa my family is from. To my best guess its Mali. But to a Black American I have more in common with a White American or Westerner (which does not mean your a white but most likely from a european influenced culture, with Christian influence) then i do with my long lost cousin from Mali. We have the same blood put we would be social conditioned differently.

19 06 2008
Landon

Puff:

*Puff You are truly African, more so then i can ever say*
s
But you know both sides because you experienced it and been a part of it. Its just like that contest we had on how many African Countries can you name . Most of us dont know there are 53 African Countries. But we would do a lot better naming countries in Europe.

I agree with one or two parts of his argument and you think i am supporting the dude. All i am saying as a Black American my culture is more european than African. We can agree or disagree. I know i am Afircan Blood and i am DAMN proud of that. Religion has a lot to do with our culture. Christianity was a part of becomign westernized. We put our own spin on it which i am sure goes back to our African Roots (singing, dancing & praising the Good Lord) but we can not deny the Brainwashing we have had over the last 200 years.

19 06 2008
puff

landon

i understand where you’re coming from, but as an african who grew up in a post-colonial city, i know exactly what it means to grow up in an european influenced culture. i might know where on a map my family village is, but i still only learned about african history at college, never in primary school and most definitely not as part of my country’s heritage. everything i’ve learned and know, down to my religious beliefs and ethical principles, have been heavily distorted by european values too. what i’m saying is, my social conditioning is probably very similar to yours, even though i grew up in africa. therefore, western/non-western are not necessarily defined opposites.

19 06 2008
imaG

This is what I consider WALLO.

http://www.anythingblack.net

19 06 2008
Jo

It seems to me that Mr. Prieto is trying to counter those of us who claim victimhood based solely on our skin tone. If one asserts that we are all aggressor-via-culture, than we can no longer assert that we are victims of that culture.

Would it were that easy. If an Ethiopian man (random example: feel free to insert anyone with abundant melanin) could simply arrive in the US, become naturalized (saying something to the effect of, “I shirk my former culture and country”), and be accepted as quickly and easily as a naturalized immigrant from, say…Russia, then perhaps Mr. Prieto would have a better argument. But the fact of the matter is that it *isn’t* that easy. And said naturalized Ethiopian-now-American will face the same institutionalized racism as the African-American man whose family can be traced back to colonial slaves.

Another issue his argument brings up: African-Americans don’t share all of European-American culture. Our family systems are arranged differently than those of whites. The music we listen to and generate spontaneously (going all the way back to Negro spirituals) is different from that of whites. Even the way we speak (jive, anyone?) is different (then again, does anyone speak the Queen’s English these days?). The proliferation of black culture stemmed in part from a realization that the dominant white culture didn’t have a place for us except as servants and po’ folk. Why remain complacent in a system that won’t allow us to thrive? Thus, the advent of black music, poetry, sports, art, literature. In effect, we have built a separate culture: a socially black Lesotho within a socially white South Africa. In the past two or three decades, our borders have begun to bleed–no one can deny this. But the fact remains.

Mr. Prieto asked, “Do you think that when you adopt a culture you also inherit all it’s debts?” To put it simply, no. That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t fight for my country or defend it when it is attacked. Perhaps things would be better if black folks gave up on reparations. (Seriously–if you think that money is gonna make people respect you more or that it will make life easier, you’re mistaken.) But just because I adopted American culture doesn’t mean that American culture has adopted me.

19 06 2008
Landon

PUff if what you are saying is true you are supporting parts of his message. (that does not mean you agree with him)
Because of the European influence our culture has been altered to mimic his and not out own. We are both slightly strengthening his argument.
We have been taught the same things but we are still treated as 2nd class citizens. We have created our own society out of this pure disrespect for us. We are different because we do not treat people how his people have. Instead we have tried to unite with other people who have had the same misfortune. He does not recognized what the force labor and forced westernization did to us as a people and what culture and traditions spawned from our slavery. Those forced conditions differentiate us from “whites” & Africans. The Black American is a unique sub-culture of Africans, Europeans & Americans mixed together. Similar to Chris’ Blog Post about the KILLER BEE.

19 06 2008
PrettyPiscesGirl

I’mma need him to come with a better argument than this rehashed mish-mash. THIS is what happens when READING BOOKS goes terribly wrong…

19 06 2008
stuffblackpeoplehate

Why this email is stupid:

As Landon pointed out, the author of this stupid email is correct in saying that to a very great extent, black people have been successfully assimilated into western society. This is about as profound as someone saying to me, “dude! your hair is black!” No fucking shit.

This email is stupid because the author, as Vanita stated in one of the first comments to this post, conveniently forgets that the assimilation happened at gunpoint. The ancestors of most black people in this country were dragged here kicking and screaming and assimilated at the tail of a whip. Native Americans assimilated into white society out of necessity for reasons that span the gamut from ecology to warfare.

You cannot bludgeon entire races of people into assimilation and then hold them jointly accountable for their own bludgeoning BECAUSE they assimilated. That is most insanely flawed logic I have ever witnessed, and could have been produced only by an insanely flawed mind.

19 06 2008
Esquire

Landon, I get what you are trying to say, but as someone who is not 100% black, I have embraced…no accepted…that I have some European ancestry. I wont get into what race blended with what to make my perfect self 🙂

But, to say that because African-Americans live in a western world, they are European is a bit of a stretch. I can have European handbags and shoes, eat thier food, and wear thier clothes and not have European ancestry. Thats a STUPID ARGUMENT. Its not based on logic nor reason. Its based on HIS emotion. He got offended because of Chris’ post and came up with this half assed argument.

“Your Obama reference, are we not guilty of the same thing? Tiger Woods, he wants to be recognized as black and Asian but we jumped down his throat saying nah nucca you black, when his mom was a big influence on him. ”

Not I. If you are biracial say that. However LEGALLY in America, if you have 1/18 of negroidian blood, you ARE NEGRO. Blacks didnt come up with that. (P.S. Tiger Woods is the ultimate black man, he is good at sports, wears Nike all the time, and loves white women. )

BTW: my emotions are not in the “way” of my argument, its hard to get emotional about a stupid letter. You know this reasoning is stupid. If you don’t, I am questioning you. And I like you.

19 06 2008
Landon

Good points JO.

but i will say and African Immigrant is more likely to be accepted than a Black American. Africans often look at Black Americans as if we are lazy. They feel we do not take advantage of all we have here. They come here to America and set up SHop quickly. AS Chrtis Mentioned all of the Taxi Company’s in DC are owned by Eastern Africans, eventhough we been driving cabs way before miss Daisy. In Harlem More African owned shops pop up every day.

Go to an IVY League school and pull a side 100 black non athlete students. I will say 60% percent of them are African or Carribean.

19 06 2008
Yonnie3k

Its too much. I’m really not sure what Daniel’s email has to do with Chris’ post. Chris was talking about all of the atrocities that Europeans have committed in the past. Then Daniel comes back with, “Well, you’re culturally European too.” WTF? Is Daniel saying that b/c we speak English and wear Western attire, that we’re just as responsible for those attrocities as the people that committed them? If’n he is, I’mma need Daniel to pick up a book and find out what black people in America were doing 500 years ago (“If you are talking about Europe 500 years ago, you are as european as I am, even if you are black”).

19 06 2008
Esquire

Its not based on logic nor reason.

look at THAT double negative.

19 06 2008
Landon

I questioned and threw a side his letter i was just saying he made some valid points. We are not responsible for American SINS. We are just trying to survive.

I was just stating he made some valid points along with his INSANE ones.

If you think about it we are in an ABusive relatinoship with america. America, beats us, curses us and calls us names. But we have still fought in every war for this country, lost countless lives and given them our culture, souls, hearts and minds. They still dont love us. But we will keep trying to be LOVED even though we know they will never LOVE us.

19 06 2008
Esquire

You cant have valid points riddled with insane ones. Those automatically render the “valid” ones invalid. They are like…lucky points. He just happened to make them, its almost like he didnt mean to.

19 06 2008
blackberry molasses

Landon-

As a black woman who is only one generation removed from living on the Continent I will have to entreat you not to make blanket statements about the way Africans see African Americans…

19 06 2008
Jo

Landon:

You said: “but i will say and African Immigrant is more likely to be accepted than a Black American.”

Do you really think so? It’s true what you said about the way some African immigrants look at African-Americans, and I know for a fact that most of the taxis/corner stores/etc. are immigrant-owned. But do you really think any of those entrepreneurs faced anymore difficulty than we might? They came to this country, and, like you said, set up shop quickly. Why don’t we as African-Americans do the same? Graduate from high school/college/whatever and set up shop?

19 06 2008
puff

landon

you’re assuming that i’m accepting his argument that by being western influenced i am white and excluded from anything black/red/african/yellow or whatever else you want to call it. i don’t accept that because i don’t see the west and non-west in black and white (so to speak) – i see the world in terms of the grey areas and ways in which different cultures around the world have influenced one another. i know that the effects of white culture tend to be the most visible (usually because they were imposed with violence), but like you pointed out with the Africanisation of religion, an incorporation of the West into my African traditions does not make me a European, but suggests an awareness of this impact and how its more negative effects can be neutralised. and there’s plenty of ways in which white people mimic other cultures without being made to feel like sellouts (all the motherfuckers who be doing yoga, travelling to India to “find themselves” and talking to me about visiting me in Africa so they can go on safari – next person who does this gets strangled by my thighs), so i get mad when people say we’ve picked up “white culture” when the shit works both ways. but otherwise, i basically agree with your points.

19 06 2008
creativecat

Several thoughts after reading the email and the comments:

According to the email-writer, most people born in America speak English as their first language–which makes them European. Does that mean that people born in Russia, who speak Russian as their first language, are not European because they don’t speak English?

I think Landon and Puff have some interesting points about Western vs Non-Western and White vs Non-White. In my school, we didn’t have any courses called “World History.” You were required to take “Western History” and could take a variety of Non-Western history courses as electives. At least one Non-Western history course was required of history majors.

The letter writer has a very good point about European culture being more prevalent to everyone–regardless of ethnicity–in the US. What he didn’t mention is that African culture was far better preserved in many other former European colonies (especially Latin America).

Also, a roundhouse-kick from Chuck Norris in the Middle Ages caused the schism in the church.

19 06 2008
Roger

All I have to say is: MORON!

19 06 2008
Landon

Blackberry Molasses:

As i dont blanket my thoughts on white people you are right. However, personal experience has caused me to have some “SITUATIONS” with my african brothers.
Hell i messed with a girl whos Father would have been pissed to hell to find out she was dating a yankee.

Just as i was informed by an African that i am not Black but Brown… (that one threw me for a loop)… but blackberry you are right. Just as i am making some assumptions based on a limited number of interactions.

Just because he is INSANE does not eliminate his valid points. Lucky or not they were made and counted.

19 06 2008
puff

landon

please don’t make any blanket statements about how africans see african-americans, cos i could counter with all the times i’ve heard:

“africans are uppity”
“you speak english?”
“do you braid hair?”

out the mouth of someone darker skinned and more negroid looking than i. doesn’t mean i assume all of them would treat me the same way. i most definitely do not look down on any african-americans because they are not african. and also, as an ivy student, there really aren’t that many africans on my campus, at least first-generationers like me. there’s plenty of african-americans too.

19 06 2008
Sister Toldja

You see, what we (people of color) fail to realize is that we don’t know ANYTHING. We can write books, put together lovely diatribes and theories, maintain websites, sing songs….but at the end of the day, we are just waiting for a good kind White man of modest years to tell US what our ethnic experience truly means. Where would we all be if we didn’t have 20-year-old White guys with a minor in Afro-Studies to explain race to us?

Daniel- Thank you, suh. Next shoe shine is on the house.

19 06 2008
Yonnie3k

Landon, how do you know that your people came over in 1823? Just curious

19 06 2008
Yonnie3k

You’re right Sister T. We should all thank White Jesus that Daniel was compelled to write this letter and explain it all to us.

19 06 2008
Landon

Yonnie:

We are able to track our where abouts from insurance coverage for cargo.
Portguese trader (same last name as I), insured his “cargo” with what is now lords or london and fianced by what is now Bank of America. Some laws a couple years back were passed stating a company or finanical institution has to state if they were involved in the slave trade. Long and behold we were able to trace my family. Dont know what country we came from but we stopped in Cuba then South Carolina.

PUFF you are right… black americans are just as guilty for talking mess… you are right.

19 06 2008
Lindsay

@ Landon –

That is so cool that you were able to find that out. I’ve done some genealogy-tracing, and always get stuck because my last name is Smith, as is everyone else’s. :oT

19 06 2008
Landon

Sometimes i wonder if we were better off or worst of due to desegregation.

19 06 2008
Mrs.Epps

wait did i miss the punch line? foreal because i totally missed the point of his e-mail?

Vanita-Ok. I am not European. That culture was FORCED up African Americans, and even as they tried to stay in touch with their African roots, they were forced/tricked in to giving that up. I have so much to say about this email, but Im hungry right now and I dont have the strength. Ill get back l8r

hell yea…i think he forgot about that..the culture was forced on us we didnt choose that shit…

btw DANIEL your african too boo…this dude is an idiot for actually spending the time to write this…oh and i thought Chris was move Native American than Black..am i worng? so wtf is he talking about anyways hahah

19 06 2008
Mrs.Epps

You see, what we (people of color) fail to realize is that we don’t know ANYTHING. We can write books, put together lovely diatribes and theories, maintain websites, sing songs….but at the end of the day, we are just waiting for a good kind White man of modest years to tell US what our ethnic experience truly means. Where would we all be if we didn’t have 20-year-old White guys with a minor in Afro-Studies to explain race to us?

hmmm sounds like the same thing that happened to me on the other post… but thank you so much on informing me of my “ignorance” about my heritage danny boy. 🙂 I would have been lost without you LMAO

19 06 2008
Landon

Lindsay:

To be honest it was pure luck. We did it for a family reunion and some one was able to get access to some files. Its amazing what they have on record. Height, weight markings on body. It was interesting.

19 06 2008
Knatural

All of this on Juneteenth…

19 06 2008
Landon

Is today Juneteenth? i never new the exact date or the adopted date. I had no idea about Juneteenth until i went to college. My home girl from all places. Minnesota taught me about it. They use to go to fields and run barefoot to see how it felt to be a slave trying to run away.

19 06 2008
Amadeo

Hard to keep a culture when people beat and kill it out of you.

19 06 2008
Omar

First the “west” hasn’t been enlightened they are still violent as hell (See Iraq War, Vietnam, Nagasaki and hiroshima).

The argument also falls apart because European “culture” is twisted African culture Western culture comes from Romans, who took their culture from the Greeks, who took theirs from Egypt in AFRICA!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not to mention the influence of the Moors on Spain. I hope Mr. Prieto isn’t spanish because many of them are mixed with blacks and arabs even though they don’t admit.

Thirdly, without blacks and native americans America has no distinct culture of its own all the original stuff came from non-europeans, jazz, rock and roll, lacrosse and Basketball(see aztecs). We made a new culture when we lost our own and they benefited. As for comfort I am normally only comfortable around a majority of minorities and personally I would rather go to the Caribbean than set foot in Europe and contrary to popular opinion it is not as westernized as people think. I hate how people think that Europeans were the only people in the world to wear pants, thats ridiculous they were actually the only men to wear skirts.LOL

Like I said before on another post mixed black people are often considered black because historically we were the only people to accept them and they only do this with successful people. Criminals who are mixed are just black. If anything they got the willingness to accept others (kind of) from us.

Landon, you can’t separate the fact that some American blacks would prefer going to Europe than Africa without taking into account that Europeans have royally fucked up much of Africa and that we still have self-hate issues which are also the fault of Europeans.

The “West” has wreak more destruction and division on the world the world than any other civilization in history. FUCK Europe, thank you very much.

19 06 2008
Yonnie3k

Obama/Omar 2008

19 06 2008
Mrs.Epps

**Claps**@ Omar…

Omar for vice president hahaha

19 06 2008
Deesigner

As for the argument that immigrants come to America and open businesses and pursue other endeavors (including education) at a higher rate than African-Americans make sense because people who can afford to immigrate have often prepared for years by carefully saving and making contacts and generally have the support of their community both here and abroad. Immigrants will drive out of there way to patronize a business owned by one of their own. We, on the other hand held a long discussion the other day (in this comment section) about how we AVOID the black businesses because the white owned McDonalds had better fries, sweeter tea, colder ice, etc……

19 06 2008
Deesigner

^^^ their, not there.

19 06 2008
Defiant

I read this email to Chris and some of the responses and here is what I got out of it. Seems to me ever since the Civil Rights Movement we blacks have been at a cross roads being do we accept and fully try to intergrate ala Martin Luther King’s dream or are we trying to seperate in the ideology of Malcolm X. The author of the email is right by living in a western dominated society we are almost forced to live and play by the rules of the white/ western game. Many of us blacks living in North America probably do have more in common with the whites around us then blacks from other cultures. No one can deny that this the Western Culture was forced upon our ancestors by brute force. But where to we go one from here?

I resign myself to being aware of the history but also trying to live my life as a total and complete individual meaning I don’t buy in to or believe stereotypes. I wish to be treated like an individual and as a result I treat people in the same regards I leave it up to the person through their own individual actions to dig their own grave as for as how I view them.

Race is a social construct that does not exsist in science, ethnicity ( cultural background) which can’t not be measured is the only way to draw upon difference between groups. Perhaps insted of constanly trying to denounce another culture or fight to be “in” or “out” of one we should just try to open our eyes to the different views and ways of doing things that others can provide through their cultural experiences… Who knows if we adopted this method we all might have something to gain.

19 06 2008
Omar

@Deesigner – don’t forget wetter water.LOL

I think it is a cultural necessity in some other countries to know how to start a business and it turns into traditions that are passed down. With black people our tradition of opening and supporting our own stopped after desegregation because of an ingrained self-hate people jumped ship and went to the white stores that they couldn’t previously go to.

My only criticism of the civil rights movement is that it dealt with what others did to us solely and not our flaws. This is why I like people like Malcolm X and Marcus Garvey.

19 06 2008
Esquire

Has anyone else noticed how bad ass the angry woman is in the pic.? She sincerely looks pissed off.

19 06 2008
Omar

@Defiant – here is a quote from Malcolm about MLK and integration.

“…your not FOR integration and I’m not FOR separation, what we are is FOR freedom we just have different ways of getting at it” – Malcolm X

19 06 2008
Monie

“Euro-trash have access to the intranets?

…fuckin’ Al Gore. ” – Shabooty

Lmaoooooo!

19 06 2008
Yonnie3k

I bet Brother Malcolm used the proper form of “you’re” though

19 06 2008
Defiant

@ Omar

Great quote! The problem however still remains on how do we get there. In Canada the french pretty much have their own Province Quebec and there is still discrimination here against them. For many poor blacks in the states neither solution brings forth any real kind of relief for the situation they find themselves in. These days I see the problem as being less of a black/white issue and more as a rich/poor issue. The one thing I know is that we blacks know how to survive being poor, white people just can’t handle that shit LOL.

19 06 2008
Mrs.Epps

we blacks know how to survive being poor, white people just can’t handle that shit LOL.

LMAOOOOOOoooo

19 06 2008
A.K.

I would like to take this moment to point out that PJs, while we do speak English (kinda) and dress Western (at times), we kept our “pagan” religion (forgive our simple minds White Jesus) and pretty much got even with Whitey by taking over the tech support industry… Want your iFag to work? Remember the 400 years of British oppression? Let me run your monkey ass around in circles for a couple hours…

19 06 2008
Omar

@Defiant – Black people have the tools tools to uplift themselves(ourselves) we just have to employ them. Our history put us in this predicament yes but it is up to us to step out of it and pull as many of our brothers and sisters out as well in whatever ways we know how.

With that said America has always had issues with the rich and poor. The irony is that the Democratic party taking on Civil Rights resulted in the most uncanny marriage of the politics of super rich elite republicans and southern/ middle American poor white folks who are so intolerant that they vote against their own interests. In that aspect we are a self-destructive masochistic society. They will have to choose poverty or intolerance.

19 06 2008
kay

lmao @ the last question…..like African Americans and Native Americans had a say in whether to adopt European culture or not.

I say the stupidity level should be moved up just for that sentence alone!!!

19 06 2008
Esquire

Mrs Epps

Take a walk on down to SC. Poor white people are doing just fine. They dont care about being poor, they just want to be left alone. Its funny, that poor whites and blacks actually have a lot in common. (not education wise a lot of the time….socially)

Poor whites get screwed just as much as blacks on a lot of things. Many Yuppie whites or upper class whites view poor whites THE SAME WAY as all blacks in general.

19 06 2008
Esquire

super rich elite republicans and southern/ middle American poor white folks who are so intolerant that they vote against their own interests. In that aspect we are a self-destructive masochistic society. They will have to choose poverty or intolerance.

OMG Omar, thats just what I mean!!! These whites would rather be eating dirt, than to progress if that means being diverse

19 06 2008
Mrs.Epps

esquire i know..i have seen it.. i have family in SC and NC..some live in the poor areas and some live in the rich areas…and i tell ya things are totally dif in each.. the poor area is cool thought ppl actually talk to you when your outside and stuff but when we visited our “rich” relatives the black ppl and white ppl were snobby as hell…

19 06 2008

what wikipedia will do to a sheltered “catholic” boy.

19 06 2008
Landon

I agree with esquire on Middle America voting against their own interests. Republican party is for the elite however they have convinced America Obama is for the elite.

Fox news called Obama and elitist but somehow John McCain is not? The Obama’s came from very little made the American Dream come true for themselves thru hard work. McCain comes from a rich military family and his (2nd)wife is a millionaire. He left his 1st wife after she became paralyzed (damn shame, I guess till death do us part includes paralysis.
I think Esquire said it but the greater divide in America is no longer purely about color of skin but how much money you have or WEALTH. … Because of the injustices of the past we are at a disadvantage at a time were the only color that matters is Green. I laugh when people dismiss what 200-350 years of persecution can do to a culture and people.

19 06 2008
Omar

@Esquire – Just to be fair, there are black people who would rather wear their pants around their knees than to clean up and get an education and a job. For that problem though, I propose free belts and wholesale ass-whoopins. 🙂

19 06 2008

Tell me why, poor white folks who live in the same neighborhood and the same projects as tahshaniqua and lil reg, think they are better?

19 06 2008

a.k.

Please for me make a white person feel stupid today when they call you for help.

19 06 2008
Jo

Omar: “Just to be fair, there are black people who would rather wear their pants around their knees than to clean up and get an education and a job. For that problem though, I propose free belts and wholesale ass-whoopins.”

Lmao. 🙂

19 06 2008
Mrs.Epps

yea AK please do that…i know my man does everytime some stuipd ass VIP douchebag calls him and asks how to install shit on the computer… a caveman could do it..insert disk..wait for loading..click next..next…wait..click finish..done…or the ppl who work with him how they dont feel comfortable fixing laptops and say its not the same as a desk top. IDIOTS a laptop is the same its just portable SMH..btw way my man is pagan too..creepy..

19 06 2008
Merri Lee

Congratulations Chris! You are European too! Feel free to cuss at police officers, take out a loan, shop at designer stores without being followed and become a vegan.

19 06 2008
Deesigner

Has anyone seen this:

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinajournal/2008/06/19/in-south-africa-chinese-is-the-new-black/?mod=yhoofront

South Africa has reclassified the Chinese as Black so that they may take advantage of the benefits that are available to the victims of apartheid and their decendants.

Utterly Ridiculous. The Chinese chose to immigrate to South Africa for economic benefit, even if they were treated like crap they always had the option of going home. Dark skinned Africans and Coloreds were oppressed in their own land. They had no choice.

Random I know.

19 06 2008
Landon

a lighte article on

Michelle Obeezie!

http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/06/18/ogunnaike.michelle.obama/index.html

My family and i now do the Obama Pound as a show of Love…

19 06 2008
Knatural

Wow, the Chinese are considered “black” in South Africa? And they’re agreeing to that? What’s up with South Africa?

19 06 2008
Merri Lee

Co-sign Deesigner! How do go to a country where you know you’ll be oppressed then ask for reparations? Especially because they weren’t black. SA has 3 racial strata: white>>> Indian/Chinese/Colored(mixed race)>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>black

Unbelievable.

19 06 2008
Merri Lee

>>>>>black

(cut off of last post)

19 06 2008
Lola

Not that stupid.

19 06 2008
Muse

My biggest pet peeve is when White people try to attach people of color to their historical atrocities around the world. Black people didn’t ask to have their culture stripped, families torn apart, and abused in order to assimilate into Western culture. The forced assimilation occurred as an aftermath of lost cultural ties. Looking at the world as a whole, every civilization was doing fine and even flourishing until White people made their presence known. Historically they are a parasitic race that has spread disease, chaos, and untimely destruction to many civilizations. The person who emailed Chris failed to acknowledge even though Blacks and other groups have been forced to assimilate into the dominate culture, we still do not have all the same rights and privileges that would truly makes us all equal.

The main reasons why I’m excited about Obama’s changes of becoming president is because he has the opportunity to change the status quo and eliminate the current power structure in this country that consist of mostly White men. Obama will have the power to appoint three justices (if I’m correct), revamp the educational structure, and change the distribution of wealth hat has left many people of color out of the piggy bank.

19 06 2008
Landon

Muse:

i agree with everything except change the distribution of wealth… They would assasinate him before that would ever happen… They might give us a black president and good education but once you start messing with the 2520’s money is when they become the MOST VIOLENT!

19 06 2008
Landon

HISTROY has proven that, sadly

19 06 2008
B4Prez

1. Tell this Daniel Prieto guy to page me from now on. No email, text, or calling… he only gets the pager #.

2. YT’s don’t have the sense they were born with. Just so damn slow, and lame. Black ppl have been giving ‘dap’ forever, and now it’s a damn news topic. It’s a shame a black man has to run for president for YT’s to notice that we do simple, ‘everyday’ things too.

I just read in the paper this morning about how the Obama’s ‘like to have bacon for breakfast’ in 2 different articles. Next they’ll be calling it a ‘craze’ that the Obamas like Earth, Wind & Fire and fried chicken.

19 06 2008
Landon

he already said Stevie will sing at his induction…

as long as R Kelly doesn’t do his Steppin remix of The National Anthem we should be ok, lol

19 06 2008
Landon

It was also news because he said he will put a basketball court int he white house and take out the bowling alley

19 06 2008
Shay-d-lady

I totally agree that class/economic status is the new black, but racism is still a huge undercurrent in not only America, but the world. I hate that the email has caused all of this discussion. I don’t think anyone denies that the American culture is based in large part on European culture; I mean we all know that we were a colony of England. The point of Danny boy’s email is that we were just as much a part of the atrocities committed as our white counterparts and should not distance ourselves from them as if we were not a part, and that is where his argument falls apart and becomes useless rhetoric. A lot of Sbph’s posts use the examples of past European violence and greed to disprove the stereotypes now associated with black people. However to say that because our ancestors’ were slaves in the background of these atrocities does not mean we as African Americans need to own these as part of our collective past. So Danny boy can kiss my ass.

19 06 2008
Knatural

Now I have ‘Love’s Holiday’ in my head. Thanks B4Prez.

19 06 2008
Shay-d-lady

LOL Bacon for breakfast.. welll was it Turkey?

19 06 2008
B4Prez

lol@Knat

19 06 2008
Landon

Shady-d-lady:

Not agreeing or disagreeing just playing devils advocate… Couldn’t he argue that other africans traded us (POWs) to the europeans, Some blacks in America owned slaves (i will never forget that Different World Episode when Whitley found out her family owned slaves), we particpated in WWII, Korean War, Vietnam, Iraq 1 & II.. Not only did we fight in those wars but we fought with honor and vigro to show that we were equal and an equal part of the American Society.

19 06 2008
B4Prez

@Shay

Nope!! Good ole greasy, sliced from the pig out back, pork bacon!

19 06 2008
Knatural

It must have been turkey…since Obama’s a Muslim.

19 06 2008
Landon

NOPE IT WAS GOOD OL FASHION SLAB BACON that nice and thick smokey bacon you get down south…. with some Grits and Cheddar eggs…. ummm hmm

he smokes Cigs or is trying to quit… Do you think he smoked Newports lol..

19 06 2008
B4Prez

@Landon

He could argue that if he wanted to, but at the end of the day, it doesn’t hold much weight. Even with Whitley’s fam owning slaves (btw, it was on last week, on BET [yea i know] lol) the undeniable thing is that it was a ‘certaIn’ black that owned slaves. Whitley wasn’t the lightest of the bunch becus she stayed out of the sun.

And as for the military, it was always considered a noble thing, up until recently, to join. Not to mention, when you’re told you’ll finally have some rights and get to leave this share-cropping farm if you go help ‘defend’ us in the war, what would you do?

19 06 2008
Landon

I would of fought. I tell anyone from the ROOFTOPS, I love my country…
for all the wrongs, beatings, abuse and neglect I still love this country…

Wait is America my Pimp…..?????

19 06 2008
B4Prez

Yup…ur man O smokes newports, lol! SMH

19 06 2008
Knatural

Landon – The comparison of African slavery/servitude and American Blacks owning slaves to Whites owning, selling, & trading slaves, and the barbaric and psychological treatment Africans have received in this country, doesn’t hold water. One of my favorite books, “The Known World” by Edward P. Jones that’s about a fictional Black family in Virginia that owned slaves touches on the moral ambiguity Black slave-owners experienced , and how Blacks may have technically owned slaves but in most cases it was because they bought back their family members.

19 06 2008
Landon

What about the overseer who was usually black as night and in the field. Some how we turned against our selves thru out history. We are own Judus at times.

WE get upset at the Seans Bell situations in the world but we shoot each other with 50 bullets all the time… I am just not sure what we can do to be honest. Its depressing. We have come so far but at the same time we have to go so much further to really say we’ve been a success… ? !

19 06 2008
Thomas Westgard

There’s a book called Black Athena. The premise is pointing out that the earliest growth of European culture was from a Mediterranean culture, which includes North Africa, of course, which also included heavy influence from sub-Saharan Africa. So those “European” roots aren’t nearly as “purely” European as Mr. Prieto would have us believe. There are a lot of subsequent cultural contacts as well.

Every time a white person finds a new way to tie his shoes, he writes a book, patents it, and gives it a new name in Latin. Thing is, sometimes he learns it from an African who learned it from his family. But it doesn’t make the white guy a genius for claiming to have invented it.

19 06 2008
Landon

I am not saying they are equal but i am sure some were not family memebers..

It was just a devil advocate… not saying that was my stance.

19 06 2008
B4Prez

I love things about this country…but there are a lot of unethical things going on in a market where 1 man can earn more than 10 of his staff members, who make the money for him, combined. And 10 is a lowball figure.

19 06 2008
Prime Minister Cinema

Omar youre on point black.

here’s u saying: @Deesigner –

I think it is a cultural necessity in some other countries to know how to start a business and it turns into traditions that are passed down. With black people our tradition of opening and supporting our own stopped after desegregation because of an ingrained self-hate people jumped ship and went to the white stores that they couldn’t previously go to.

yep before and when seperate but eqaul was the law we depended on our own to buy from and as a result it began a “merchant class” for blacks in america. it even birthed a few millionaires. but when the laws changed we stopped looking to our own. (wetter water, colder ice) this happened in part because of the civil rights movement and also whitey saw the money in it as a new revnue stream.

the difference other people and cultures have in coming here vs. the slaves and their offspring is that they have a merchant class in their country so they understand being business owners as a necessity. statistics bear out that blacks that graduate from HBCU’s are more likely to be business owners than their counterparts that graduated from white schools. (thanx in part, Booker T. Washington) in a capatalist country/culture being in business is the only way to become independently wealthy and truly turn the tide and prepare our sons and daughters to compete and level the playing field between the haves and have nots. unfortunately we are still massa’s slaves making them rich and strengthening his seeds, fattening his fold, swelling his coiffeurs, creating trust funds for his babies, even if we are on a 6 figure tit. …and believe me its all conditioned and bred in our thinking and belief as well as planned by the those who still to this day control our well being. fuck conspiracy theories. real talk.

19 06 2008
Merri Lee

BTW Obama did quit smoking. You know they were Camels, that’s why Jigga endorsed him.

19 06 2008
Landon

So forget whats wrong…

Lets the things we really need to do. I know we dont agree with the talented tenth… but in reality you cannot save everyone (everyone does not want saving)…

so what percentage of the people do we need to do the right thing to make us as a people do better? can we do it (20 -25%).

What are the things we have to do?
1.
2
3
4
5
6
7
……

19 06 2008
Landon

Meri lee, LMAO

19 06 2008
Knatural

AHAHAHAHAHAHAH @ Merri Lee. Camels. Poor Beyonce.
I got it Landon, I didn’t assume that was your stance. Wrong is wrong anyway.
Black Athena, I vaguely remember my parents having that book in the house. My dad would always say that Greek society completed lifted everything, from religion to entertainment, from someone (Egyptians) else. I may have to pick it up soon.

19 06 2008
B4Prez

Damn, I missed that comment by Omar, but I’ll be damned if you didn’t just spit the truth. It’s really sad to see the state of Black America. We have ppl who are so far removed from the negative aspects, holding forums every year, but refusing to get to the bottom line. We went from separate but equal, to separate in the black community. From the time when we were slaves, freed blacks (normally freed because they were of mixed, thus, monied descent) separated themselves from the black masses. As individual blacks ‘came up’ financially, they adopted the same ideas and attitudes. Blacks who ‘had’ were trying to convince themselves, and whites, to no avail, that they weren’t like other blacks.

The point is that this idea has never left us. We shake our heads at the kids in the hood doing ‘hoodrat stuff’ and idolizing athletes and rappers. Stop and ask yourself what these kids see – GROWN ADULTS doing hoodrat stuff, and athletes and rappers are the only success stories they see. There’s no Dr. Huxtable up the street from them. The success stories aren’t visible to them, and therefore aren’t realistic.

Donating to the UNCF doesn’t do much for the 10th grader trying to decide btwn focusing on school, or giving up becus ‘school is bullsht’ and a ‘waste of time’….according to his friends and neighbors who have all ready dropped out.

19 06 2008

:::comes in singing: “red red wiiine….”

19 06 2008
Shay-d-lady

No problem Landon, I don’t think you can argue that because those cases of Black Slave owners are few and far between and like they said on A different world, some of them purchased their own family so we cant really use that as justification. As far as the African s selling us, indentured servitude and POW are a part of all cultures but what Europeans did with our ancestors was unlike any other form of servitude seen before or since. AS far as fighting in the world wars, I don’t think that counts because being a soldier was one of the few avenues open to African American males that allowed them to feed their family and survive, so socially they were still forced to participate in this for survival, and also lets not forget the draft that got a lot of our African American males to participate in the Vietnam war while the Clinton’s and W. Bush’s were able to weasel out of it but they are part of American history and I am willing to concede those points. I am by all means African American which means I know and accept both parts of my heritage. That being said you are not going to get me to own up to the Atrocities at Auschwitz cause last I checked there were not many African’s in that joint

19 06 2008
Landon

shay d lady –

i agree with you but what about the slaughters in Rwanda and sudan and the many before that?

Or we are able to float in between saying it AINT MY FAULT.

what do we take responsability for?

19 06 2008
B4Prez

I think the solution is black success stories have to make themselves visible and accessible to these kids. You have to truly know better to do better. Poverty is a cycle that the majority of blacks were born into. It doesnt change just because time does.

To make things even worse, all of the athletes and entertainers these kids idolize, run around endorsing any and everything inaccessible…from Louis V. to Balenciaga to Laboutain. I don’t know how things are in toher cities, but in NY, Prada sneakers are the ‘must have’. Prada? To wear up the stairs when the elevator in ur PJ goes out?

I’m gonna stop now, sorry for the novel…in 2 parts, lol

19 06 2008
Esquire

@Esquire – Just to be fair, there are black people who would rather wear their pants around their knees than to clean up and get an education and a job. For that problem though, I propose free belts and wholesale ass-whoopins.

Um, gimmie one of them belts. I have said on here often that our black men catch a lot of hell from the black women, BUT, there are a good many of them acting like fools. I am a big Bill Cosby fan.

I’ll clarify, I think that our young men (and some women) need to be trained and taught to be the leaders and productive citizens we were born to be. I get on women because instead of helping to get our men straight a lot of us demean and give up on them. We need to support and help and love some of these men. Tough love, soft love…whatever, but we dont have to bash them all the time.

19 06 2008
Shay-d-lady

and in answer to your last question Landon, I think we need to do what we are doing now, Which is live to the best of our ability, disprove the stereotypes but still own “our blackness” and raise our fucking children the way we were raised. What I see happening with the talented tenth phenom is that black people who “make it” use this as a way to distance themselves from being black, the look down their noses at the “ghetto” brothhren and sisters that are still struggling. Whether you agree with it or not the thought process was that the few who made it would strive to make away for others, the talented would lead, not run away. Most of us in this blog are in a position our ancestors couldn’t even dream about. How many times have you turned your nose up at the new black guy/girl on the job and seen them as competition. How many times have you seen a chick with natural hair and assumed that she was common or radical and joined in with fellow co workers in ridiculing her? For those with children, how many are adopting the “time out” philosophy with raising children instead of beating a little ass when your child is being ridiculous?

19 06 2008
Knatural

Prada sneakers? And she doesn’t even use Black models AHAHAHAHAHAHA.

19 06 2008
Prime Minister Cinema

Landon i know we gotta educate/inform ourselves in business, successfully compete in business and bring our younguns up running our businesses. (big, small, mom & pop, public and private) not just work for the man and burst thru his glass ceilings. i don’t expect him to give an edge to us vs. his sons and daughters for those prized positions. i wouldn’t. the business of america is BUSINESS. the gross natl. product is BUSINESS. CAPITALISM. every black man wont own a business but we can hire our own. and even those who don’t formally run a business can be merchants and trade.

negroes get a lil miseducation and a few letters behind our names and never fully understand what our white employers know. we gota six figure in some cases salary and live in a deasant neighborhood, and send lil homey to private school. well whooptey doo. …and still we lost and turned out. go figure.

when i go to the chineese restaurant and eat. the lady who owns it is there with her 4th grade daughter. that lil girl can ring me up, take my money and give me my change unattended. her mother can barely speak english. so i know they first generation American.

19 06 2008
B4Prez

Don’t even get me started on that ‘Where are the Black Models’ hoopla. The same ppl out buying and endorsing the designers who don’t use black models are the same ones complaining becus some white man didn’t include them in the fashion show. SMH

19 06 2008
Shay-d-lady

Landon we have to own up to that but seriously from where do the trouble in Rwanda stem? I mean from my understanding the divide between the Tutsi and the Hutus started with the german colonizaiton. They did the same thing there that white people did in India with the cast system. Yes we still have town that our people have been victims for far to long but the overall point that this type of behavior is learned from Europeans and not necessarily ingrained still rings true in this situation.

19 06 2008
Landon

So lets make a list. and debate what is the best route.

yes pputting your nose up is wrong but at the same time we are going to have to leave a lot of people behind.

Our schools are so F’ed up we really need to start over.

One of my dreams (if i make enough money) is to open my own school. The first year i will only have Pre-k 2nd year K and Pre-K, 3rd year Pre-K, K & 1st and so on. You would have to start in the school in the Pre-K program. The reasons for this method is so you control the schooling environment from a very young age. Children are so intelligent if we just take the time to push them. I would want the school to go from pre k to 12th… I think such a school even in the worst PJ would be a success. Failure would not be an option.

19 06 2008
Muse

If Black people want economy prosperity we need to keep money circulating in our communities and promote BIG business. The mom and pop business are cute but they do not generate billions of dollars. We need our own banks, investment banks, venture capital and private equity firms that have a global presence. In addition to that we need to educate ourselves and make sure we put people in fields that have the most influence on society. We need multiple networks (other than fucking BET), that explore various sectors in our community. Basically we have to stop depending on everyone else to pull us out of this funk our community seems to be in.

19 06 2008
The Doc Is In

THANK YOU PMC, Shay, Esquire and the many others. I get so bothered at how unwilling we all are to support our own and how we’ve been tricked into being ashamed of helping each other like we don’t deserve it. How they’ve managed to turn affirmative action into “quotas for undeserving negros” when white women are the main beneficiaries and “legacy clauses” and NEPOTISM have existed forever…*sigh*. Look at the fully functioning mini-societies that are the Chinatowns within major cities – some with community run schools and most children getting business sense as soon as they can start to speak. But any time two or more of us try to get together to do something “oh, why are the blacks being so separatist all the time? Aren’t we all Amerikkkans?”

19 06 2008
Shay-d-lady

I dont know Landon, they have adopted this method with Charter Schools here.. and it still sucks… but let me say this. I went to a school deemed one of the worst in Memphis. However I must say that my English, HIstory and Chemistry teachers were some of the best I ever had. I think the problem with the schools has a lot to do with parent involvement. When I grew up, my parents made me read a book a week and do a book report every week in additon to school work. My teacher had my parents number on speed dial. I went to school and I got what I needed even in the worst enviroment. My first day of school at this school, a fight broke out in the cafeteria and 2 girls were cut with Machetes. I kid you not.

19 06 2008
B4Prez

You know how many kids have never seen a black lawyer? Or a black doctor? Or a black exec. It’s so much more of a valid question that many ppl realize. And Landon’s right, you can’t save em all, but some have the ability and desire for a better life. They just think, ‘if it was possible, then none of these ppl in the neighborhood would be here’. SMH

19 06 2008
Shay-d-lady

oh and my point is that even in the worse schools a child can get an education. Its when the schools are bad and the parents are non existent that you get the mess we are in today… and Muse you hit the nail on the head with this one “Basically we have to stop depending on everyone else to pull us out of this funk our community seems to be in.”

19 06 2008
Landon

Charter schools dont start one grade at a time. We have to change our view and the culture of our education.

We have to program these kids… and its easiest when they are 4 years old. We could teach a 4 ear old chinese and they would learn it in a year if we tried.

a 4-6 years mind is like clay we could shape it any way we want if we took the time to do so.

19 06 2008
Knatural

Muse – exactly. I heart you. Self-sufficiency, no waiting on hand-outs from Whites, and education. There’s really no excuse (anymore) for Us. Especially after Obama is president.

19 06 2008
Landon

Machetes?

what in the HELL? THey cutting sugar cane?

Sneaking in a buck 50 (a switch blade) makes sense and razor blade makes sense, damnit even a shank oiut of a sharpen toothbrush…

but machete?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
what a broadsword was not available?

19 06 2008
Landon

Obama can only change so much. We need so many changes on the Local level before we can really help Obama…

Sadly even if Obama wins we can not even help him as much as we should.

MUSE is right we need to estbalish more big businesses and trade with Africa and Asian nations to be self sufficent. So much has to be done. How do we really mobilize?

19 06 2008
Omar

@Landon – Africa is an entire continent and there have always been internal conflicts there and it is the same for Asia and Europe. How often do you here the Holocaust described as white-on-white crime? I don’t think anyone here exonerates all black people from any crimes, in fact this group of people seems relatively (correctly) critical of black people, often. I think people have owned up to the atrocities in Rwanda and they are today more accepting of each other, not like what you see in Israel-Palestine. That still doesn’t change nor measure up to the slavery, conquest and subjugation that the so-called, supposedly superior , “West” has done. Not to mention the fact many of the conflicts within Africa stemmed from colonization because the Europeans put a bunch of people together that didn’t necessarily need to be under the same rule, and incited division by treating some better than others.

By the way most of the killing going on in Darfur is done by Arabs and Black people who think they are Arab, fucking president is Darker than me.

We also don’t need anymore lists we got enough of them just tell all your friends to stop screwing around.

19 06 2008
Shay-d-lady

I dont think the question is how many kids have seen a black lawyer or black doctor..we have all seen Johnny Cochran, the local attorney’s that represent you when you get “caught on a weak ass charge” but how many of these are accessible? How many of our youths are looking at this as an attainable goal. The problem is self esteem. During the civil rights era our people would dress us up in our finest keep us clean etc so that we would feel good even in the face of the most glaring oppression. My mother tells me how my grandmother would tell her to “get her lesson” every day and tell her she could be the first president….consequently I grew up in the hood but I never felt that there was something I could not be I never felt less than anybody else, I always knew I was just as smart and capable as anyone else. I don’t think many of our youths feel like that now. I volunteered at the boys and girls club in the pjs for year and just listening to young girls and boys talk about how they couldn’t wait to get their own apartment in the pjs rent free as if it was the best shit in the world really fucked me up.

19 06 2008
B4Prez

@Knat –

Muse is right….but don’t jump the gun on Obama. One thing I’d bet my right arm on, is that if Obama wins, every YT’s fave excuse will be ‘how can ___ be about race, we havea black president for god’s sake’. It’s like, ‘You’ll blacks havea black president, now get over the past’ , as if everything socio-economically changes when Obama get’s the keys.

However, what I truly think is the MOST IMPORTANT part of Obama winning, is how he’ll change the views of so many little black kids on what’s possible for them. This is on top of how it will also help offset what so many YT’s in bumfuk see on tv and assume is ‘black’.

19 06 2008
Shay-d-lady

Charter schools here in Memphis do, as well as a few private schools.

19 06 2008

My passion is to assist african american drug addicts, men or women to get clean.

Although it may be funny to see a crack head trip out, it’s sad. I see a black woman everyday on drugs, STUCK, talking to herself…no teeth, the whole nine. I just think about her kids, and the possibilities that aren’t apparent to her anymore.

The worst part is the effects it has on our black children. The victims become so fucked up. Even if they don’t end up on drugs, they end up being the parents that think lil’ reg should have all rocawear and jordans drinking kool-aid @ 10:30pm watching hoodrat stuff on tv, instead of an education.

It’s like this cycle isn’t going to stop. I learned that all you can do is start at home and put values, morals and EDUCATION in the home. I know for damn sure my son isn’t going around @ 3 yrs old singing “everyday I’m hustlin” and that is the reason I cut out cable. (God I miss A&E and Sports Center)

19 06 2008
Shay-d-lady

and yes Machete’s that were stolen from a nearby pawn shop…. while all my friends in good schools were getting books and getting to know their way around, I was watching a chick get sliced up with a machete in the lunchroom

19 06 2008
Omar

“Historically they are a parasitic race that has spread disease, chaos, and untimely destruction to many civilizations.”

Sooo they are like the aliens from “Independence Day”. 🙂

“…they are like locusts, they go from place to place destroying everything and using up all the natural resources.” – the President from Independence Day

19 06 2008
Shay-d-lady

Right on b4 prez. Obama cant change in 4 years what has taken place over hundreds but I do think he can help instill a sense of self esteem in our youth. I also think that he will open the door for more like him and that can lead to big change eventually but only if we are willing to do more as a people than just talk about it.

19 06 2008
Knatural

B4Prez – Yeah, the Obama comment was facetious. A lot of folks see him as a saviour, he’ll wipe the proverbial race-relations slate clean, but no, he won’t. It’ll take another two or three generations for any extra dirt to come off that thing.

19 06 2008
Landon

. List or common goals? Individually we can not do it but together with a REAL PLAN for once its possible. We always try to do it for the greater of me, but we need a greater for all approach. Hell, i am good i made it if that’s the case.

I got my mule (my car), i got my 40 acres (my coop)… I can settle and just live my life out with my 9-5 and live good sipping my wine. But we have to take a collective approach. Like you mentioned before Africans come over and they loan money to each other so they can start businesses.
We need a detailed economic logistics plan first and foremost or we will always be Crabs in a bucket.
Even if we just owned things that are considered black: Fried Chicken joint, BBQ joint, rap Label, Sport Teams, Jewlery Shops, Rim Shops, night clubs, high end baby gear, koolaid, Crisco, jiffy cornbread and so on we would be better off…

19 06 2008
Landon

hmmmmmm JIFFFY CORNBREAD….. 🙂

19 06 2008
Shay-d-lady

but we do own those things Landon, and then because we are so uneducated we let some big company come in and take our idea national.

19 06 2008
Shay-d-lady

I have never had jiffy……and I am from the south. I Know it is very sad, I have also never had real bacon, a pork chop, a fat back etc.

19 06 2008
Omar

I think we need to educate our kids on how to get from point A to point B, there should be charts “how to get from high school to be a judge”, or a chef, or an engineer, or a surgeon etc…

We also need a real training for principals in black communities, we could call it “Joe Clark school for school administration”

We also need to forget our labor laws and employ black children like that Chinese 4th grader, there is no better way to learn and lord knows I wanted a job at 11 years old.

19 06 2008

What’s so FUCKING sad is that OBAMA being black, or any race for that matter SHOULD NOT be a fucking issue in 200 fucking 8. White folks have been fucking this country since DAY DAMN ONE. DAY ONE christopher “disease infested” Columbus.

They don’t see that it’s them that started the insecurites about being black. It was them who started separating families. It is them who won’t hire a WELL QUALIFIED BLACK MAN but will hire a non experience having “coke head” whiteboy. It is the white man that started the Drugs and is keeping them here. Need I say more?

The white man is the blame for everything bad that has happened in this country besides eating pussy( thanks).

19 06 2008
B4Prez

@Shay

Ur right. I was trying to say, more along the lines of accessibility, because seeing them on t.v. doesn’t hold as much weight. When these kids see that they can have money, and success, outside of the PJ’s w/o a record deal, it resonates differently.

I’ll tell u 1 thing, when I went to visit colleges i did the whole ATL circuit. Coming from upstate NY, I had never seen entire neighborhoods filled with successful black ppl. It was a major eye-opening experience that changed my life. I can honestly say it was a defining moment that changed what I thought of as reality.

19 06 2008
Knatural

Do childless grown-ups drink kool-aid? AHAHAHAHAHAHA
Holding the cup with both hands…

19 06 2008
TomatoHead

I haven’t read all the comments but being a former English major I just gotta say: Folks, please be a little more careful with your spelling and diction. No one will take you seriously if you can’t spell and don’t know how to use words correctly.

Coiffeurs are hairstyles. Coffers are treasuries.

Laboutain isn’t a designer I’ve heard of but Louboutin is. (By the way, how the heck did you get Balenciaga but not Louboutin?)

Sorry to get all uppity but holy White Jesus, could you people not make it so I have to decipher what you’re saying like its some kind of code?

19 06 2008
Landon

One problem i dont understand

we have an all or Nothing mentality.
Never forget when Cam’Ron was on the Radio talking about why would i work a 50k a year job, i rather Hustle.

Or all or nothing mentatlity helps prevail the largest obstacles to become the Jordans and Oprahs but so many of our children look at a 9 to 5 with a modest apartment and a honda accord as wack. They either want the bentley or die tryign hustling in the street.

where does this come from? why is the accountant making 75k a year not successful in their eyes?

19 06 2008
Landon

….

19 06 2008
Omar

@Ne – Wait eating pussy is bad???

19 06 2008
Shay-d-lady

B4Prez I had the same exact experience coming form the south. My hood rich school had a college tour. It was liek 4 days and 3 nights and we toured a lot of HBCU’s the AU complex and Grambling, Dillard, and Xavier had a profound effect on me. However when Spellman woud not give me a scholarship but Stanford would, I was a little bit depressed. I attended neither one but I found that quite telling.

19 06 2008
B4Prez

Lol@ the grammar/spelling lesson.

I’m sorry I didn’t know how to spell Louboutin, but Balenciaga isn’t that difficult if u sound it out, lol

btw- ditto @ Omar (child labor) and Ne (columbus/puzzy) lol

19 06 2008
Landon

Standford has a BILLION dollars (in my Dr. Evil Voice)…
Spelman not so much… 😦

More HBCU GRads have to give back to thier schools. Howards largest individual donar didnt even graduate from the school (puffy)…

19 06 2008
Omar

@Landon – Many of us aren’t taught patience or morals like…Don’t Fucking Poison Your Own People!!

Also some of them don’t think that they can, I hate to say this but that’s part of what happens when you believe a white man is GOD. (that isn’t a shot a Christianity just the white god slash white Jesus even though he’s from the middle east)

A white man believes a white man is GOD and subsequently he believes he can do anything.
A black man believes a white man is GOD and the black man ends up wanting the white man to do anything FOR him.

19 06 2008
Omar

Am I wrong for not knowing so many black people had money until I went to Morehouse. I was seriously shocked to see college kids whose parents bought them Jaguars and BMWs.

19 06 2008
B4Prez

BTW, I did win the city spelling be when i was in 6th grade…but I guess Louboutin wasn’t one of my words, lol

19 06 2008
Shay-d-lady

all or nothing, feast or famine. Now that is one bad trait passed down from my parents. When my parents had money they spent it all and then started all over again. I had to teach myself (and I am still learning) about savings and 401k’s stocks, bonds, portofolio’s etc. We definitely need to teach our kids money.

19 06 2008
Shay-d-lady

Landon I would concede that point but Spelman is not hurting for donors, now if you were talking about Morris Brown, I could understand

19 06 2008
B4Prez

@Omar –

Don’t feel bad. I didn’t know until I went to ATL either. It was like a suburb in my hometown…….but every1 was black, lol

19 06 2008
Jo

@Omar: Maybe I’m old-fashioned, but I’m shocked to see college kids in BMWs and Jaguars no matter what the color of their skin may be.

For real? What happened to starter cars? We still have starter homes, right?

19 06 2008
Landon

i new girl who had blackcard before i knew what the blackcard was who went to Spelman…

i thoguth i was well off until i went to Morehouse… I called my dad and was like yo i think we really dont have that much money pops…

he said no shit …

19 06 2008
Shay-d-lady

JO we dont have starter homes…when I tell you that several of my friends laughed when I decided not to buy my dream home out the gate….and now they are all caught up in that ARM/foreclosure cycle

19 06 2008
Landon

My first car granted i was 17 was a 1985 Honda CRX, cost me 17.50 to fill up… that bad boy was a tough cookie though and could park it anywhere..

19 06 2008
Landon

tomato new = knew sorry

i am the worst i kjnow

19 06 2008
Shay-d-lady

Thats just like right now I have a cuz that has graduated from college and is working on her Master’s. She is currently working at Macy’s and driving an Acura and not the small one.

19 06 2008
Jo

@Shay-d: You said “several of my friends laughed when I decided not to buy my dream home out the gate….and now they are all caught up in that ARM/foreclosure cycle”

Hmm…maybe that’s part of the problem. Our people seem unable to take baby steps. It’s “I want everything, and I want it right now.” I’m living in an apartment right now and I’m putting money away a little at a time. One day I want to buy a home. Not some McMansion–just a little something small with which to start. What’s so wrong about that?

I didn’t get my first car until last November, and I’m paying for it myself. And no–it sure ain’t a Beemer.

19 06 2008
Shay-d-lady

excactly, we are in such a rush to prove we are better than others that because we have jobs and degrees we have to run out and buy huge houses, expensive cars and clothes and that’s not what it is about in the long run. We spend a lot of time talking about what we can do to help our ghetto brethren but we have a lot to learn as well.. Just because you can afford it dosent mean you should. I mean we need to have a basic understanding of what a net worth is and if we look at it like that most of us will fall short.

19 06 2008
Landon

i just bought my first brand new car at the ripe age of 27…

19 06 2008
Prime Minister Cinema

well Mato Head ur quite right. my hair is coiffed and my coffers are full but at the end of the day i’d rather have my coffers full. Esquire just driled me on grammar and diction last week and i hate you had to dig so deep thru my lack of grammar to get to the substance. …but always choose substance over form. …and perhaps i should be working instead of trying to type something on a blog in a hurry but oh well i take my chances vs. no contribution to this discussion.

Muse we need black people at every level of entrepreneurship. i don’t think it realistic to “…own banks, investment banks, venture capital and private equity firms that have a global presence.” without penetrating other and smaller forms of business as well. don’t discount small business. many small business owners make more than you and i combined. don’t be suprised if the home you are upgrading to, they are moving up from.

19 06 2008
B4Prez

@Landon – U know what I think. These ppl chasing the flash feel like they can’t compete with white ppl. So in their secluded world, it becomes about comp with each other. U have ppl runnin around buying stuff they know is fake, just because it has the name they want on it. ‘I can’t fuk wit that YT, but I can be better than all of my ppl’. SMH

@Omar – lmao (dad said: no sh*t)

@Shay – Yea, I couldn’t get enough to buy a book from the HBCUs I applied to. Too bad I wasn’t all ready rich with a dad who was an alum…then I would’ve gotten a full ride. SMH

19 06 2008
Esquire

Shay…

I will say that a lot of the white people i know will go broke to buy that house.
They are in mansions, sleeping on mattresses. I thought it was stupid, but really, as long as you can afford just the mortgage on that dream house, it is a really smart thing to do, even if you have to eat ramen and buy furniture from Kmart.

This is because a house is the single best investment you can make. Cars depreciate, rims (dont get me started) all that other extra loses money. A house or property is really the easiest way to nake money in the future. You just have to be patient on that return.

Then again I am saying that because in SC, we are not affected by the housing crisis. Property values are not decreasing and builders are STILL building like crazy. So take that advice if only in a good market, obviously.

I believe in starte homes only if thats trulllly what you can afford. If you are in a starter home driving a bmw, you should be shot in the face.

19 06 2008
Pariah

I was cool until he got to the reparations argument.

19 06 2008
Muse

Prime, I understand what you are saying and I’m not trying to undermine the value of small business owners. My mom owns her own business and is making more than triple what she made as a psychologist. What I do want Black to realize that once we have our own major financial institutions, we won’t need to depend on society for our well being.

19 06 2008
Esquire

starte= starter

19 06 2008
Esquire

High Five Muse

We need something other than record labels and Vodkas.

Lets try: Banks, mortgage companies, investment firms, construction firms, etc…

19 06 2008
Shay-d-lady

Esquire I am going to have to disagree…just affording the mortgage is not enough to buy the home. I home that you can afford is a really good investment but a home that you are just barely able to afford is terrible that is why foreclosures are so rampant. it is that type of thinking that will forever have people broke and disgusted black or white. So to summarize buying a home is a good investment. A home within your means, that allows you to not only buy the mortgage but furnish it, pay for repairs that might arise, as well as still build on your savings, but buying a home you can just barely afford is a bad decision I dont care how much the home is worth.

19 06 2008
Landon

but that illustrates my point about the All or nothing…

yes investment banks and equity firms is nice. Personally i am trying to own my own construction firm.

however, the small corner businesses i’ll take at this moment. I would love it if we owned all the bodagas on my street corners and the 99 cent store, laundrymats and Dunkin Dounuts. There is no reason we should own every WEAVE SHOP FROM here to Cali but the Koreans took the market. Are we took good to do nails and own a nail shop. The chinese man started cooking friend chiken wings why can’t we open up small shops in Chinatown serving SOul Food?

19 06 2008
Esquire

Well by mortgage, I mean the bills, upkeep, etc on the home.

I dont mean if your monthly income is 2000 to have a mortgage that is 1700.

My example is more for certain black females I know who have to get there hair “did” nails “did” every week. Total 620 a month
Drivin a bmw=650 car payment
Clubbin/goin out=200 a month
cable=75
Designer wardrobe=couple hundred a month
Furniture from Ethan Allen=cha ching

Why not use that money you spending on bull-ish to pay for a mortgage on a house in a good neighborhood, with good features, so that you can easily sell it and get that money. As opposed to settling for an 80K house that no one else in the world wants, in some shitty starter cookie cutter neighborhood, where they mowed all the trees down and it sits on the market for ions, while you actual turn upside down in the house trying to improve it so it will sell.

thats all I meant, by no means buy a house that you truly cant afford

19 06 2008
Jo

@Esquire: Co-sign on Shay-d-Lady’s comment. Also, what’s wrong with a starter home if you own a BMW? If all you need is two bedrooms (master and a spare), why waste the extra square feet? Who without a huge family needs a huge house? Why don’t we reduce our ecological footprints and try to live just with what we need?

I’ll tell you: ’cause a big house equals big status. I’ll be honest you–it seems like a lot of waste to me.

19 06 2008
Esquire

LAndon, I dont think Muse wants to get rid of the small businesses.

But we HAVE those. What will really empower us is getting money from blacks who own the bank and will give us small business loans instead of having to fund it with our credit cards. We always have to go to YT for something and ultimately he makes the decision as to what our black ass gets. THAT is power. THAT is the ability to stimulate an economy.

19 06 2008
Jo

Also–while we’re busy helping up our people, why don’t we help up their neighborhoods? You say those neighborhoods are “shitty” and “cookie-cutter” but there are plenty of people in the world who would live in them and clean them up and be thankful. But no–Americans have to “go big or go home”.

19 06 2008
Esquire

I didnt say anything about size.
Size does not equal quality.

You can have a 700 sq foot house that will sell easier than a shitty 2000 square foot house. I just believe that you get what you pay for. If you can cut out some bullshit to get a better house that will make you more money, why not do that. That was the point I was making. Dont get a mortgage you have to sell your plasma for.

19 06 2008
Jo

I’m with you now. Word.

19 06 2008
Prime Minister Cinema

as i stated earlier “(big, small, mom & pop, public and private)” i guess that about covers it huh? LOL!

many more black people will be able to be merchants, small business people etc. than owners of “Banks, mortgage companies, investment firms, construction firms” and the like but yes, we need all of it.

(checking to see if i have any ambiguous pronouns) LOL!

the thought police lurks

19 06 2008
Landon

There is no way yall ladies are spending 200 in the club… for what reason? On what? You get free drinks and get in free 9 times out of 10

19 06 2008
SOMALI QUEEN

Every black person should be forced at gun point to finish a course about finance on their 16th birthday.

I can’t believe the number of black people who buy 60,000 cars, a shoe for every day of the week, disgustingly large & useless crap jewelry and retarded shit whenever they hit upon some money. Idiots. I can guarentee that they would be in the poor house in a couple of years.

19 06 2008
SOMALI QUEEN

By 60,000 I don’t mean the price of the car but the number of cars (slight exagerratoin). WTF would anyone do with 20 cars? Why don’t they put that money in the damn bank or give it to someone who really needs it?

19 06 2008
Esquire

As I said before, I wasnt talking about size. Im talking about quality.

And by cookie cutter, I mean the scary neighborhoods where they mow down the trees and put the houses so close together you can watch your neighbor taking a bath.

Jo, please keep in mind I am in the South. We do not live on top of each other. A yard is valued. Townhomes, condos arent really that big here. Everyone wants a one family home. So my argument is based solely on my region. I cant speak for others. Here, it is weird to see a house without trees and a lawn. You only pay a little for those houses, and then get stuck in them once they age 5 or 6 years. Solution: try to outmarket the newer houses so you can just sell the damn thing. This means you turn upside down…investing more than what you paid, just so you can get rid of it.

I think I came off sounding snobby, but thats not what I meant. I mean stop spending money on things that wont HELP you when you have that money to spend on things that WILL. White people do this shit all the time.

Blacks=BMW in front of a tiny house they cant sell
Whites=Raggedy Ford in front of a Quality House(S) (BIG or small) that when they sell, quickly, makes them 40 or 50K.

Thats truly all I meant. Get what you can afford, but evaluate what you can sacrifice for a BIG payoff down the road. Is that so backward?

19 06 2008
Esquire

Landon, the money going out is spent on make up, cute outfits, taxis, etc. It cost a lot to go in the club broke to get free drinks.
lol

19 06 2008
Prime Minister Cinema

easier to obtain than maintain. make sure we do the math, homeowners. ya know its funny they call u a homeowner when you MAY only have a mortgage with little or no equity. i’d rather be able to pay a home off and upgrade than be upside down in interest payments and amortized to the hilt. America is up to its neck in hock. what of international banks. they finance countries, wars, militaries. what of re-insurance, they finance all the lil insurance brokers in your city. we talkin multi-billion, trillion, zillion……

we’re mere pawns. you thought the illuminatti was a folk tale. i think not. but it starts from the ground up. organic.

19 06 2008
Jo

Esquire, I think we’re finally on the same page now. Thanks for the explanation.

“Get what you can afford, but evaluate what you can sacrifice for a BIG payoff down the road.” There’s nothing backward about that. On the contrary, it is very progressive…at least for some people.

19 06 2008
Landon

In college a lobbied for Morehouse to teach a Peronal Finance class for all students as incomign freshmen. Credit Card and debt mangement, investing even buying properties around the school as upperclassmen. Thye never implemented it… 😦

19 06 2008
Esquire

Well Im sending you a cyber dap like the infamous Obam dap. You also get the thumbs up

19 06 2008
Prime Minister Cinema

the secret to wealth is in its creation not its accumulation. thats why folks that hit for dough are without it in a few yrs. holla back.

19 06 2008
ladebelle

this is some stupid shit… point blank…

19 06 2008
Esquire

Obam= Obama obviously. Im trying to sneak in comments at work

19 06 2008
Landon

Well my people as always i look forward to talking to you guys tomorrow…

Maybe Chris Created something that might allow us to come together and change America. WHY NOT? IF we believe in our dream and work at it together we can make it happen. I think it is evident we all want the same thing for our people and our country.

Peace Luv and Nappiness

I am out with the Obama Dap!

19 06 2008
Prime Minister Cinema

well maybe you all see it as bass ackwards but having deposits from many diff vendors, business owners leverages banks to be able to make the type of loans and investments that make loans available for bigger businesses like investment firms, construction firms etc. thats just one approach. i mean if we shouldn’t have to go to whitey for everything. right? hear me now believe me later.

19 06 2008
puff

i think educating ourselves as non-white people as a whole is one of the most important things we can do. making sure our children do not grow up with an inbuilt inferiority complex about the colour of their skin, the texture of their hair, or with the stereotypes they have enforced on them. i hate to use the word like i’m common or some shit, but being “conscious” is one of the things i think that has redefined the way that i see myself as a person of colour in a white-controlled world and how i’ve therefore become determined to be successful while being true to myself, as well as tempering the influence of “white” culture with my traditions. i apologise if i sound a little preachy, cos i think accounting classes are a damn good idea. shit, i’ma sign up for one next semester, i need to quit blowing my money on shoes.

19 06 2008
Omar

We honestly can stand to do a little less clubbing, I tutor at a church in DC every Thursday during the school year. The place is full of black kids being tutored by white folks, there are about 6 or 7 black tutors and about 2 or 3 of those are black men. I can go 4 or 5 blocks from that church to any of the clubs in the area and see a room FULL of professional black at happy hours and parties. The visual is that we don’t care about our people as much as white people. So if you can take one day out of your schedule and give a little back.

19 06 2008
Esquire

ouch! good point Omar.

19 06 2008
Mrs.Epps

Somali-Every black person should be forced at gun point to finish a course about finance on their 16th birthday.

I can’t believe the number of black people who buy 60,000 cars, a shoe for every day of the week, disgustingly large & useless crap jewelry and retarded shit whenever they hit upon some money. Idiots. I can guarentee that they would be in the poor house in a couple of years.

indeed indeed…totally agree…I’m tired of telling black ppl i know to get their priorities in check..get that house instead of thoes wack ass rims for you car..rims are fine and dandy until your shit breaks down on the highway and never starts again…

19 06 2008
Mrs.Epps

Omar-We honestly can stand to do a little less clubbing

please please please tell my damn friends that shit..every damn weekend they call me about going clubbing.. that i need to get out more anf have fun…i got way more important and fun things to do than shake my ass at some club and drinking over priced drinks. I rather paint the walls in my house. i’m out ppls…

19 06 2008
Deesigner

I must disagree with you Esquire. The proof is in the thousands of foreclosures across the country.

The notion of stretching a bit for a mortgage was a fairly common and sensible way of building wealth for several generations. Most people bought one home paid it off instead of constantly upgrading. This was when job growth and stabilty was the norm. Buyers were required to put at least 20% down so they went into the home with equity. The combination of economic instability, buying homes with no money down, and the “upgrade” culture has contributed to hundreds of thousands of people being in homes that they can no longer afford and not all of them are in ARM’s.
One of the thinks that we can do as a people is to value modest lifestyles. The Mexicans in Texas have this down pat.

My housekeeper owns her house and new truck outright, while my husband and I owe Bank of America a grip.

19 06 2008
Merri Lee

I forgot to ask WTH was up with Daniel Prieto’s upside down question marks? I’m thinking, ¿Donde está la biblioteca?

19 06 2008
Deesigner

Soooooo sorry Esquire. I took a call and missed your explanation.

19 06 2008
Deesigner

Methinks my inner fat girl is going out for mexican food and Margarita’s tonight.

I’ll contribute to the uplift of black folks by visiting the soul food joint on Saturday (J/K).

19 06 2008
Danger Mouse

WTF?!

Is that you in disguise, Cindy McCain???

19 06 2008
Muse

Off topic: Ladies pick up the latest July issue of Italian Vogue which features all Black Models.

19 06 2008
Knatural

Muse, thanks. Is it in honor of Yves St. Laurent?

19 06 2008
Mrs.Epps

OMG Knat you friend Clarice is my hubby’s old elem or middle school gf i forget which grade it was hahaha

off topic i know haha

small world

20 06 2008
Knatural

Hahaha… small world indeed. Though I know her though somebody else, who I know through somebody else 🙂

20 06 2008
Mrs.Epps

yea thats usually how it works..

20 06 2008
Tosin

What an absolute waste of human flesh.

I think he invented stupidity…

20 06 2008
AQUILOGY

I need a drink

20 06 2008
nelo

I hate when white people try to ease their concious by deluding themselves that were all equal in our sin.

Jeez, can’t those people just accept that they suck really hard and leave me alone. God.

20 06 2008
letinstar

gah…i step away for a few days and i come back to stupid emails…wtf….

20 06 2008
rai

“Even if you happen to be the son of a recent immigrant like Obama”. . .

third black person white people know. is he going to be the staple reference from now on? I guess it is time for an update because before him they only knew Little Jon (or however u spell that shyt) and Martin Luther King

20 06 2008
Brown Sugar

Wow… that was painful reading… Didn’t make past the third paragraph. Sometimes one ought to keep one’s opinions to oneself.

20 06 2008
nelo

““Even if you happen to be the son of a recent immigrant like Obama”. . .”\

I’m the daughter of immigrants and my black ass is damn sure that i’m not european.

AH! stupid people

22 06 2008
MDUBB

Lest we forget the contributions of World cultures on what we now call Western Society. The worlds first republics, educational institutions, even symbolances of modern industry, farming, etc where not in Europe. The Greeks and Romans didn’t come up with most of the things they are given credit for creating, they saw those things working elsewhere and assimilated those things into their own socities, from religion to architecture to politics, and in some cases they even documented their sources. Google the Black Madonna’s for instance and see how many are located throughout Europe, not as museum pieces but at their original sites. Don’t be fooled by the Eurocentric mindset which aims to assimilate world culture and then sell it back to you as a “new Western” way of thinking.

23 06 2008
WargodPR1

This is all very laughable. MDUBB you couldnt be further or closer to the truth. The Romans are little better than culture thieves, while the Greeks philosophers initiated an understanding that is still attempted today.

As far as History goes, it depends on your perspective. This kid’s viewpoint is a bit skewed but presents a logic that one has to look at. None of us truly know where and how things were applied throughout history, they are merely an assessment of what people think. People use what information they find for their benefit, whether its true or not. That is why we have such a disparity in history.

Whether it was forced on you or not (since it wasnt forced on you persay) his argument has logic. Yeah it was forced on your ancestors, but how many people on this planet cant say the same? Since the Europeans did the most forced expansion in the modern era?

People need to stop looking at this as if its a personal attack on them and look at what the argument is.

24 04 2009
abw

Point blank-this man can seriously STFU and go to hell. Blacks and whites are “not” the same. This is not all good or bad either. It just is! We do not have the same experiences, the same heritages, the same outlook, the same circumstances hence not always the same interests. African/Black America has numerous influences from Native America and from various Western European cultures but alot of what passed for black/African American culture comes from various African cultures. Some of these traditions are mixed together so you may not know where all this stuff come directly from in Africa but that goes for alot of European traditions and Native traditions (and others for that matter) since 1) people don’t always know the exact region/groups some European/Native American practices/traditions come from since these practices were mixed and the knowledge lost and 2) America traditions hail from around the world.Also, for all the talk about blacks/whites being alike, skin color, is the first thing noticed by the same people talking the hooey this man does in his letter whether they are just sheltered or out and out racist because a) they are racist b)because each group does have distinct features and c) each group has different cultures with class helping to magnify things that are already different(and this not all bad or good!) I am not saying blacks have been influenced by “nothing”-that would be a stretch and admitted lie albiet forced but also conscious exchange, in Western/European culture, but folks kill me with this “flap” because this “shit” is never spoken until white folks call themselves wanting to put some uppity “darky/ies” in our/they place/s. HERE IN LIES MY ISSUE WITH THIS MESS-but I am just speaking for me. But by this same logic, with a gov’t partly influenced by Iroquois, half the foods we eat coming from various Native American groups, music influenced by Blacks and some of the agricultural practices America has coming from blacks folks ancestors from America, and various contributions from Latino and Asian groups including Arabs and Jews- could not the same argument be made that Western culture has been heavily influenced by others to the point that all that passes for white culture is irrelevant like it seems to be said for blacks! Half of what passes for southern culture in the U.S. comes from African American culture but do you think you can convince a white bigot of this or force this letter writer to renounce his ethnic white heritage because of this. For that matter,at least 10% of whites have black ancestry at least down south but if you put 7o of white people in a room, including the write of this commentary, could you see all of this percentage copping to this in the presence of fellow whites. They would claim Native American blood over this even if they have it.I bet money. I digress. Anyway, It can be an argument made that much of what passes for Western culture is really nonwestern since alot of what passes for Western technology/practices/ etc.. are contributions that come from some place that has been given an Anglicised/Latinized slant. But do they view or acknowledge things this way.No. In light of the fact that the culture/accomplishments of folks of color been subject to marginalization-these groups admitted want to claim what they do/come up with.

24 04 2009
abw

BTW, I made many typos. Sorry. Won’t say it won’t happen again it will. I will just try not to make too many typos. My one suggest is that folks bare with other posters and myself to get the main idea even as you criticize grammar,punctuation,spelling,writing,etc. Anyway,my personal opinion is that today blacks suffer from both race and class. It is not just race, because classism exist within black America like it does everywhere else. But it is not just class, because poor whites do not always see themselves in the same boat as their poor black counterparts. Also, in addition to blacks trying to be upwardly mobile or equal citizens, we also face social triage/genocide as a group. So it is race and class. Anyway, I also want to say that no, some Africans and Some African Americans do not see eye to eye on everything but these folks do not speak for nor represent the whole community-so blacks from both communities need to consider using these fools as a template on how everybody for that group feels. Snooty Africans do not speak for all of African nor do ignorant simple “black jokers” speak for all African Americans. Some of us on both sides got sense. I also want to say that the division between newcomers/natives exist with all ethnic groups-including whites yet they manage to try to successfully work together. It is not impossible with us. Also, other groups have intraracial crime/violence/warfare in their communities and they still don’t forget everything about where they come from. WE REALLY NEED TO STOP ACTING THROUGH WITH EACH OTHER WHEN WE FIND THAT THIS IS THE CASE. Just build bridges to solve the problem.Oh yeah, I also agree that we need to save,live below our means,pool resources and better educate ourselves across classes. But we also need to figure out who contributes to our problems from the outside and how we contribute inside at the same time. I done for now.

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